All-black Silver Star oddball

Tokai Forum

Help Support Tokai Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Voidoid56

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
342
Reaction score
213
Location
Sweden
Here's a weird one, just delivered to me. It's all Tokai parts, but certainly an odd combo of features. The basic model could be SS38, but there's a whole lot more going on:

  • All-black finish, i e painted neck, not just headstock. I'm not sure if that was official finish option or not, like matching headstock?
  • No serial, not on the headstock, not on the neckplate, not even on the trem spring cover...
  • Headstock decal á la 1982 SS-60, i e with Silver Star in small caps. Black on black and almost invisible, but at least it helps date the guitar, since that decal was only in use in 1982
  • U-stamp pickups and brass control plate, i e basically a harness straight out of an ST-50 Springy. It even has the same countersunk height adjustment screws with large heads as the pre-CBS copies, and a pickguard with countersunk holes for them. To me, this suggests a guard custom for this guitar, there were no ST models with black plastic
  • The bridge seems to be an ST-style Final Prospec unit... only with Silver Star-style cast saddles. It has a separate plate and a smallish screw-in block with rounded ends, both which look extremely similar to FP parts to me. Hard to be sure, though, it's not unlikely that it's a subcontractor part anyway.

Ok, so that's odd. But after a lot of googling I actually found a single almost identical one, in a 2019 post in a Canadian guitar forum:

https://www.guitarscanada.com/threads/ngd-tokai-silver-star.234496/

This guitar basically ticks most of the same boxes, except one: it seems to have standard SS electronics, with unmarked grey bobbins, no brass plate and normal SS height screws with smaller rounded heads and no countersinking. There's nothing in the text about the bridge and no pics clear enough to show if it has block mounting screws or not.

Interestingly, it has a 48 model sticker, which seems off, since a standard SS-48 would have the octagonal higher-end tuners. The body stamps in both are close, 4=7 in the Canadian guitar, 4 =8 in mine, so both April and one batch number apart according to the prevailing interpretation.

So, what are they?

Well, they seem to potentially fit rather well with the "Order-made system" detailed on page 16 of the 1982 catalog. You could order a custom paint job and different pickups out of the Tokai range and the cost would be minimum 20% on top of the RRP for the basic model. Both guitars seem to be based on the SS-38, and 48k for the Canadian guitar is indeed slightly more than 20% extra. I've no idea what the U-stamps and ST harness in mine would have added to the price, but maybe it came with a 50 or 55 sticker? It's also interesting that the body stamps are so close.The catalog clearly states that there was a waiting period for custom orders, so maybe the waited until they had a few on their books before manufacture began?

Really, the oddest little detail to me is the SS-60 decal. Why not apply just the logo on a guitar with a black head, Greco certainly did. Or maybe SS-60 sales were disappointing and they just had more small-cap decals than they needed? :)

Yeah, all of the above is just speculation, of course. And the truth may be unknowable at this stage anyway. But either way, it's a really nice, and cool-looking guitar. The neck is a tad skinny for my taste, but as always, I love the sound of those U's.

8tiNQRh.jpg


[img

















 
Last edited:
It's a beauty whatever it is ultimately.

The solder joints look unmolested as they say, so good chance it is a factory job that may have been a special order as you suggested.

Very cool guitar.

Would be great to see it in the Silver Star Gallery thread. 8)

Note that the 1981 SS60 OW in that thread had the U pickups.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26058&hilit=silver+star+gallery
 
I was trying to think what other vintage Fender style Tokais I have seen with a painted neck.

Maybe a bass and maybe an SS70? Not totally sure, but definitely rare.

Cool guitar.
 
Hi guys,

Firstly - scratchplate is not original and neither is the bridge.
Saddles are Tokai SS, and the body stamp and Ash body are certainly a surprise.
Would like to see the base of the neck as to whether it has been converted from a 4 hole to a 3 hole.
There will not be a neck stamp due to the paint.
Painted necks were more a feature of Tokai " xxxx Edition" guitars rather than regular production, and with the SS-60 logo it is a real mix of Models.

sorry I can't be more help
regards
Peter Mac
 
The neck joint is perfectly normal for an SS-38 or any other bullet+3-screw model, though the neck pocket washer, screws and microtilt have been removed and were originally replaced by a crude card shim. No extra screw holes for a four-bolt attachment.

What gets me with this one is that it's such an odd mix - but all parts are, or could perfectly well be, original Tokai. Yeah, it's weird that the pickguard ticks all the boxes for a Springy or an '82 SS-60 unit... only in black, which neither of these models ever came with. On the other hand, no sign of the pickup height screw holes having been tampered with to accommodate the countersunk screws, the small bevel to ease rear end truss rod adjustment looks very Tokai, the screw holes in the body line up perfectly. But sure, it could be a third-party replacement. The bridge is certainly wrong for a 72-76-style SS, but looks quite similar to a Final Prospec unit minus the actual FP steel saddles. Can't say I'm sure, though.

I don't know, it just doesn't smell like a mod to me. The "psychology" of modding seems to generate more dramatic results: third-party pickups, not just another model from the same manufacturer, want a new bridge, get a brass one etc etc. As to the finish: I've certainly never seen any repro decal house having the ultra-rare small-cap 1982 SS-60 decal on offer, which strongly suggests that the neck left the factory in this condition in 1982. Also, if anyone was trying fakery to hike the price, they failed miserably, I paid 22k JPY for this one. :)

But am I sure? Hell no. But where's the fun in that anyway? :D

[img]https://i.imgur.com/DRzLZws.jpg[/img]
 
Comments from the owner on that other thread (knight_yyz).


I just got this a few minutes ago. It is going up for sale in a few days. Was supposed to come with a soft shell case so I am waiting to hear back on why it didn't come with the guitar. This guitar almost looks new from the front. There is rash on the back but nothing breaks through the paint. The pickups sound better than I was anticipating. I heard Tokai's can sound a little thin. I'll be removing the PG to see if it has the U stamped pups or not. 3 bolt neck with the larger headstock. Unfortunately the decals are almost invisible. You can see it used to say Silver Star but now it is black on black instead of gold on black. Anyway on to the pictures. BTW if anyone knows where the serial number should be on this please let me know. All I can tell is that from the logo on the headstock it is pre or up to 1982.

*******

I can tell this guitar is made from Sen Ash. They say it is acoustically similar to alder. Which emphasizes the bass a bit more. If someone played the Tokai and the Greco back to back I could tell the difference in a blind fold test. Not saying one sounds better than the other but the Tokai definitely has more bass than the Greco with the same string gauge. The tokai also has the grey bottom Alnicos which mean they are the SS Hot version of the pups from back then. No letter U or letter E or letter S on the bottoms. I still don't see a serial number so it is almost impossible to date. I'm assuming earlier than 82 because they do have serial numbers on the headstock. I heard something might be stamped right on the fretboard. Didn't notice anything while using the bore oil treatment. I read inside the tremolo cavity, but again nothing. The only identifying mark is the letter "A" in the neck pocket and this number in the control cavity. Unless 4=7B8 or is it 4=788 means April 78? I don't see any dates on the pots either. Just the M250K ΩA. Either that or maybe the trem claw is blocking the serial. Either way its a fantastic guitar.

******

I'm not worried about it being original. Just wondering about the year. Everything I have read says this label does not exist. I did read something that got me wondering though. I know Tokai made guitars for the domestic market, and that's what the Silver Stars were supposed to be for. But they also exported to certain countries like Australia etc... so I may have a country specific label?

The quality of this guitar is on par with my Fender Japan and my Japanese Greco. If you think about it, they have the Springy sound which is one of the most coveted Tokais. It's designation was St-42 and up, the Gold Stars were TST-30 and up, and the Silver Stars are SS-30 and up So whether you bought a springy sound 42 or a Gold star 42 or a Silver Star 42 , they all cost the same. 42000 yen. How is the springy sound better? They were all made around 80-85 so I don't see huge price increases affecting model numbers. I'm surprised mine is only a 48 model. It has the matching headstock and the rosewood board, both are upcharges. The only advantage a Springy Sound had was you could get a very high end model like an st-120 which you could not with a Gold or Silver Star. But up to about st-60 what difference can there be? At about st-80 and up you start getting name brand DiMarzio pickups , and nitro finishes... But as for build quality and materials..... I don;t see how there can be a huge difference

I took pictures of the neck but there are no markings. It is completely black except where the 48 sticker is near the heel. There is no bare wood. The only markings I have seen so far are in the control cavity. And I cannot find info on how to read that, although someone did suggest the BB meant black on black .

Why is it that Japanese Les Pauls have date codes on the pots, but strats don't. My Greco mint collection Les Paul Custom is dated 1990 and it is even verified by the date on the pots as being '89.

******

So, I'm pretty sure this is a one of a kind. Or extremely rare. Maybe a prototype or R&D thing. Tokai silver starts did not come with painted headstocks. I searched the net and could not find one!! They are all natural color. After doing more research I am convinced I have some type of prototype or transition model.

First off, the label is one of a kind. It mostly resembles an 1982 Springy sound label. The colored headstock was available on Springy Sounds but not Silver Stars. IIRC baked maple fingerboard was stock and rosewood was an option. This is rosewood. So I think I have a rosewood Springy Sound neck at the least! I've heard so many stories of 80's fenders pieced together from different bins of parts. Tokai was the company building the early 80's Fenders so if they were mixing and matching what Fender had, and they were also doing the same thing with their own lineup of Springy Goldstar and Silver Star models, I think I have one of those mixes. But why do I have a special logo? You would think it would have had the correct Silver Star logo or the correct Springy logo, not a mashup of the two. Prototype? if so Value?

******

it's actually a mish mash of Goldstar and SilverStar. A Goldstar strat has a "oldies but goldies" sticker where Fender puts contour body. Under the Silver Star logo is also the goldstar blurb " The Quality Musical instruments of the World". Silver Stars have no blurb, and no "contour body" sticker. Instead they have a serial.

******

Back in 1982 you could buy a GoldStar (TST**) a Silver Star (TSS**) a Limited Edition ST**, a Custom Edition ST** or a Super Edition ST** with ** being the actual number 38-120. So after speaking with Tokai and reading posts on different forums, this is what we have come up with. The guitar is an SS48. Comes with ceramic pickups and baked maple on maple neck. But this has been upgraded with a colormatched headstock (catalog item) the rosewood board (catalog) and the alnico pickups from one of the Custom/Limited/Super editions (available in the catalog)... I don't know what Limited/Custom/Super denote, but one of them is dedicated to the CBS large head strats, and the other 2 for small headstock strats.
My label was supposed to be reserved for the SS60 model and the SS80 model. See the 1982 catalog. But there are plenty of those models with the other big font logo as well, so I guess it was not written in stone which neck got which label. It is not an SS60 neck or it would have had the vintage tuners. The reason you can't see the label is as I suspected. Black font on black paint is not visible. The label was never all Gold.



N2M6y9l.png


yAH9rBa.png


qUXtcas.png


iJMk1gE.png
 
So.... maybe yours is an SS58 or something similar, and the Canadian one an SS48?

SS48 + 10 and SS38 + 10 ?
 
Different electronics (unmarked grey bottom pickups, pots, cap & no ground plate) on this one.

iJMk1gE.png
 
Sigmania said:
So.... maybe yours is an SS58 or something similar, and the Canadian one an SS48?

SS48 + 10 and SS38 + 10 ?

Yeah, it's possible... but impossible to know, unless an identical one with a model sticker in place turns up, I guess. But if we assume that a custom all-black finish would add abt 20% to the price of an SS38, maybe the U-stamp + harness upgrade would add 5-7k yen more, so maybe SS55? They would have had a sticker printed for that price, at least. :)
 
Yaeh, SS55 or SS58 even?

I’m not that familiar with Silver Stars, but I found pictures of the wiring for a 1982 SS38.

It did not have the brass ground plate and it had the gray bottom unmarked pickups with the blue and black lead wires like the one you linked with the 48 sticker.

Also, I think that linked SS48 had the pots and cap replaced.

https://wmde.poieess.xyz/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=14953

P6Mg4pS.jpg


iGZkjTh.jpg


RdqwqCS.jpg



To me it makes sense that the upgraded paint was billed as an extra 10,000 yen. 5,000 for the headstock as stated in the 1982 catalog, and likely another 5,000 for the neck making that one an SS48 as the sticker says.

However, I was wondering if yours was an SS58 ultimately since it has the brass ground plate and U pickups.

So my thinking is that you take an SS48, and you then add 10,000 yen and you get an SS58? At that price it’s below an ST60 that had E pickups.

But as you said, it’s speculation. SS55, SS58, SS??. You may have a one of a kind guitar at this point.

I’ll keep an eye out and see if another one surfaces and post it here if I see one.

Very cool guitar. Congratulations on finding it.
 
Yeah, the bridge is odd on mine. To me, it looks like a Final Prospec bridge with standard Silver Star cast saddles, not the pressed steel ones found on ST models from 1982. Like you said, you'd expect a cast one-piece bridge on an SS, not one with a separate block.
Now trem bridges can be a bit generic, but the smallish, rounded block without marking seems pretty specific to Final Prospec bridges. Greco and Fernandes both used bridges with larger blocks with more squared-off ends, for instance.

This is a Final Prospec bridge off an ST-60.

97HKu5G.jpg


And here's the all-black SS:



Looks very similar to me. Note the identical indentations around the holes for the springs.

PS. I actually sold the all-black SS a few days ago. I've apparently reached the point were I sometimes pick up a guitar just to do the research and then flip it. :) As a collector, I focus on out-of-catalog Greco SE store run models, custom orders and other oddballs, of which there seems to be an unending supply (they're slowly taking over my home :) ). I
 
Last edited:
Lol. Yep, it’s a never ending quest isn’t it?

The detective work is fun I think. Kind of like unraveling a mystery.

Grecos are cool. I collected Ibanez guitars and still have a couple very rare ones. I understand. 8)
 
Part of the fun with Grecos is that they ran what basically amounted to a custom-shop operation from as early as 1972, which puts them decades ahead of the US brands. Stores and store chains could commission small batches of uniquely specced guitars to have something special to offer, and end-users could order anything from standard models with personal tweaks to ground-up new instrument through selected stores.

Also, the final six or so months of Greco Fender copy production, from late 1981 to April '82 (before Kanda Shokai became Fender Japan partners) bring up a lot of Fender copies unlike any that came before. They might be 1982 Fender models that were never officially launched or Fujigen getting creative with the last batches of Greco parts or a mix of both, nobody really knows.

This means that any non-standard oddball you see is basically about as likely to be an original Greco as some exotic mod. So, fun city and good hunting. I think I might have about a dozen or so of these weirdos by now.
 
Just spotted another all-black for sale in Japan. This one's later than the one I had, though, it has the script logo and also the Super Edition moniker.

There are lots of mid-80s solid-colour Super Edition guitars around, most of them superstrats, but there are SSS models as well. However, those all have pre-CBS (or in some cases, hockey stick) headstocks and output jack on the side of the body. This one looks like your standard TST-38/-40, though lack of close-ups and internal pics makes it hard to be sure.

As far as I can see, this guitar has no externally visible serial. Nothing on the headstock or neckplate. That would be highly unusual on a Tokai Strat, and it would be interesting to see if there is one inside the guitar.

QuTwGUx.jpg


ORfbTzW.jpg


ZG66NT6.jpg


shevgrq.jpg
 

Latest posts

Back
Top