Advice Needed: I Want a Different Tokai Strat From Mine

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Stringzy

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Hi,
I would love some advice from you guys. I'm quite new to posting on this forum, and have found the info you all share a total godsend about Tokais!

I have a really nice maple board 1980 Springy ST-50 w. Med-Jumbo frets and Fralins that I am just not bonding with, and I think that it's the FB. I had an AST many years ago with maple, and when I went on to my next guitar w. an ebony board after that in the late 1980s, it was love at first touch and sound.

I am thinking of replacing my Springy, possibly with a RW board C-necked Tokai Strat, and would immediately change out the pickups and put in Med-Jumbos. Since the 80's Springys, Golsdstars, SS's, TST and AST seem to share the same bodies and necks (?), should I just find any clean Tokai of any of those early variations as the base for the changes? I have a great 1989 Sadowsky Strat, also w. Fralins, that is my main guitar, but I wanted a nice backup to have a different feel and more vintage vibe.

I was also thinking that another less expensive, but obviously less resalable option might be to get a similar spec’d 80s Fernandes Strat as a base to upgrade. Does the quality match up pretty closely to the similar year Tokais, as I believe they were built by Tokai and Kawai?

Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
 
After doing a deep dive into the discussions about fingerboard woods related to feel and tone, I’ve answered my own question somewhat. The strong consensus seems to be that the differences in both tone and feel are minuscule, and much, much less than most of us have been led to believe. I still would like a backup guitar with a bit smaller if a neck than my Springy, as I have small hands (size Small gloves).

I had my AST so many years ago that I have forgotten what a Tokai V shaped neck feels like. Are they generally smaller in circumference than the C necks, and are some V necks fitted with rosewood FBs?
 
How's your Japanese?
https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/tokai-1981-flat-top-series-catalogue/

Page 4 shows neck profiles
 
My Japanese language skills are as non-existent as my knowledge of vintage Tokai neck types, but I can certainly use Google translate and can see the sketches of the 4 types. Thank you very much for sending these in to me!!
 
I don’t know about a difference in tone but they sure feel different to me playing them. Rosewood feels faster. I bend notes a lot and there’s less resistance than maple from my experience. Ebony is the slipperiest wood I've used. So for me the fretboard wood is a matter of feel rather than tone, but I’ve lost a lot of my hearing so who knows?
 
I know exactly what you mean about hearing (or not) tone, Sigmania. Years of blasting amps in small music practice rooms in college and after did a real number on my hearing, as did age (68). I have Fralin Vintage Hots in both of my guitars, but their construction is so different from each other that they should theoretically sound at very least somewhat different. Sadowsky has ebony FB and weighs 6.8 lbs, while Springy has maple FB, and weighs 8.45lbs. To me, they sound pretty darn close, but as you said, maybe its my ears and not the guitars!

I know that many of you guys know vast amounts about the Tokai Strat models. Did any come with flatter radius’s (radiui?) than 7.25?
 
I'm not sure what the radius measures. Here is my 1979 ST100 for reference.

CO5YX14.jpg


1981 ST80.

cpcTO0J.jpg
 
Wow! It was hard to get past my initial absolute awe that you have such amazing examples of the Holy Grails/Unicorns of Tokai guitar models!!! What beauties!! Do you mind if I ask where in the world did you find these rare models? Japanese auctions?

The boards appears to look a bit flatter than vintage 7.25, but maybe it’s the camera angles. Checking online seems to show the ST-80s having a 7.25 radius, so I would also possibly assume that the ST-100 has that, as well, and maybe all 80s era Tokai Strats do. Does it feel that way to you when you play it?
 
Thanks. I’m a horrible person to ask re tech specs. I tend to adapt to the guitar if I like the sound rather than looking for a specific nut width, radius, etc. I’m probably the weird one.

I also probably have relatively long fingers so larger profiles on Les Pauls don’t stand out to me either. But I hear about it from buyers when I sell a guitar.

And those two guitars I bought ten years ago. Actually off of eBay by a particular seller that unloaded some great guitars. Haven’t seen that in a while on eBay in the US.
 
I know what you mean about tech specs. The only reason I remotely know them at all has been the need to find out what a guitar selling online might feel like. I had always bought my guitars in person with private sellers, or in stores, where I could feel and see how I match with that particular guitar. The 1980 Springy was the first time that I’d ever bought one online (Reverb) and in general it was a pretty good deal and match for me.
 
That makes sense. There are a few members on here that I know are into MIJ Strats. Someone will probably come along soon with more info.
 
There are plenty of radius gauges available - I prefer this type because they are notched so that you can put them over your strings and they rest on the fretboard:

https://www.solomusicgear.com/product/solo-notched-radius-gauges/
 
Hi Guys,

From my experience, all 21 fret SpringySound necks are 7.25 Radius. Neck shape does vary however.
Maple necks are 1 piece and are either a '56 soft 'V' or a '58 vintage 'U'
Rosewood boards tend to be veneer style with a vintage 'C'. In '81 Tokai introduced a '62 Slab board with vintage 'C' this neck was also used for the USA models TST-62 and AST-62.
The only exception I have found to these occurred in 1980. ST-80 models with R'wood veneer boards were given a 'V' neck instead of the 'C'. This is the only Year this happened and they can be distinguished from other R/W necks by the "A" stamp after the number code at the base of the neck and the Allen truss rod. It is interesting to note that Fender never produced a V neck with Rosewood board so why Tokai did - even for the one Model/One Year scenario - as they were not replicating any vintage Fender neck.
I do own one of these ST-80R Springys and it is my No.1 strat. I does have Texas Specials and VIP pots with Emerson PIO cap though, still every person who plugs it in and plays it is smitten by how great the neck feels and the monster tone. Most believe it is an old Fender until I point out the Name.

Hope this helps
Peter Mac
 
Peter Mac said:
…Rosewood boards tend to be veneer style with a vintage 'C'. In '81 Tokai introduced a '62 Slab board with vintage 'C' this neck was also used for the USA models TST-62 and AST-62.

The only exception I have found to these occurred in 1980. ST-80 models with R'wood veneer boards were given a 'V' neck instead of the 'C'. This is the only Year this happened and they can be distinguished from other R/W necks by the "A" stamp after the number code at the base of the neck and the Allen truss rod…

Hope this helps
Peter Mac





I swear that my ‘81 ST80R has something like a soft V not unlike my ST100. The sides don’t have a constant radius. More like the flat side of a V shape, but not totally flat.

And my ‘81 ST70R has a deep neck towards the nut more like a U neck. This guitar is full of anomalies though including a "D" stamp on the fret board.

Here’s what I translated from the Spring 1982 catalog. Obviously not perfect...

-'54 model (ST80.100.120) Small head stocks, Kluson type peg, string guide, V shape neck are all perfect.
-'58 model (ST60, 50) It may be mistaken for ‘54 at first glance, but it features a U shape neck and a parallel 2 way string guide.
-‘60 model (ST70R) rosewood finger board is a big feature. Shape. Hamochin U Shape. New love place with ST70.
-‘64 model (ST50R.60R.80R.100R.120R) Neck with laminated rosewood finger board. All models U Shape except ST80R


Sigmania said:
2NcDRww.jpg


-'54 model (ST80.100.120) Small head stocks, Kluson type peg, string guide, V shape neck are all perfect.

szuU4NH.jpg


-'58 model (ST60, 50) It may be mistaken for ‘54 at first glance, but it features a U shape neck and a parallel 2 way string guide.

d8W32qM.jpg


-‘60 model (ST70R) rosewood finger board is a big feature. Shape. Hamochin U Shape. New love place with ST70.

JhurUfy.jpg


-‘64 model (ST50R.60R.80R.100R.120R) Neck with laminated rosewood finger board. All models U Shape except ST80R

AKkYVBv.jpg


-‘64 Rare Model (ST70) Headquarters Hatsuneba. It is a Maple neck with a maiden pattern that is also used by Japanese Soon guitarist MT.
 
Cool. That’s about what I’m feeling. My ‘81 ST80R is not a constant radius. Your wire illustrates what I’m feeling.

I need to get another contour gauge. Mine is bent from getting tossed around. Scratched my guitar the last time I tried used it. Grrrr
 
It looks to me like the soft V on the ST80R extended at least part way into 1981.

Mine is serial number 1013537.

I need to pull the neck and see if it indeed has that “A” stamp like my ST100 does.

Thanks for the info Peter Mac. You’re a wealth of information.
 

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