Help identifying early 80's Strat

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shortymcsteve

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Hi,

Some time in the early 80's my dad purchased what he believed to be a 57' reissue Fender Stratocaster made in the Fullerton factory. The man he bought it from claimed it was purchased in London before making its way to Scotland.
In 2009 I decided to inspect the guitar and realised some things didn't add up. At the time I posted pictures on the Fender forum asking for help to ID the guitar and that's when I realised that it was a Tokai! Recently my dad asked me some questions about the guitar again, so I decided to take a look and I now understand a lot more thanks to this forum. But I would appreciate if anyone could weigh in and answer some questions I have or correct me.

My dad thinks he bought this guitar some time between 81-83, but I know that Fender were struggling to release the 57' reissues in 82. So it would have to be after that. Probably late 82-83 if he thought he was buying the real deal.

From what I can see by checking the catalogues, the first time Flamingo Orange (FO) shows up is 1981 as colour choice for the ST50, 60, & 80. After that It's kind of hard to see FO listed until the 1985 catalog which features the TST50, 55, & 60. The TST55 is the only one available in FO.

I have a bunch of questions to I'll note them all below:

- Does anyone know the earliest known time FO was available as a colour?

- What kind of finish would this be?

- I know the serial number on the back relates to the Fenders they were trying to copy, but when did this start/stop?

- What's the story behind tokai/deluxe written on the back of the tuners? In some of the catalogues they show drawings of the tuners with Tokai written on them, and I read the story about Fender using a Tokai in 82' on their own promo material which was identified by these tuners. But my dads guitar features the word 'Deluxe', and I've come across a few others with this too.

- What wood would be used around this time? The 1985 catalogue states alder, but translating some Japanese it seems different woods may have been used previously?

-I read on the forum about pickups being stamped with different letters. What are the different options that existed? From what I read in the catalogue they listed MK I and MK II but I don't know how these relate to the stamps.

- What does 11-12 mean? I found someone else on the forum with the same numbering on their FO guitar with a rosewood neck. I assume one of these numbers is the month of production?

- The last question I have is, would there be any way that someone in Japan applied the fender decal? If this previously sported a Tokai logo I cannot see any signs of removal what so ever - but I don't know how easy it would be to remove? I assume the person who bought the guitar did this, but I also don't know how easy/common this was in 82-ish. Oh, and is there any other decals missing that should be there?

I know it's difficult to date these guitars, but if anyone can help in doing so and identify the model I would really appreciate it! Along with any other info to educate me on this guitar. Thank you!

(Sorry about the watermark, if you open them in a new tab you can see them in full resolution with no watermark)


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What's the serial number? That might help date it. It would be on the original neck plate.

Edit: I see now. It is a dark photo. Looks like 13125? I am not sure, but the 7 digit serials can give us production dates, then the Fender clones serials changed to an L serial in 82 or 83(?), then I don't know. Someone else who knows more will chime in I'm sure.


The 11=12 I believe is an internal Tokai code for matching necks and bodies. The "FO" is your color.

And I think the E pickups were used on ST 80s and up? U were used below ST80? Again, someone else will clarify I am sure.
 
8 screw pick guard...

The U pickups are throwing me off.

Based on the 6 digit serial, and the brass plate it seems like it could be an ST70, but it sounds like it should have E pickups...

Might be an ST60?

I dunno. Again, someone else will chime in soon I bet.
 
And what were you saying about "Deluxe"? Do you mean stamped on the tuners?

I believe that was on their Kluson type tuners and helps us know which model it might be.
 
Probably alder 2 piece body and poly finish?

Again, waiting for the experts to chime in. Could be a while. Not a lot of visitors lately. Folks have moved on. Trying to keep the lights on here. 8)
 
6 digit serial number indicates an ST70?

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Features I noticed:
8 screw pick guard
Brass plate under pick guard
U pickups
Kluson style tuners

I believe the decals were installed after the finish, so easy to remove.

I think your guitar is likely alder with thin poly finish.

Nice guitar. Sorry your dad was misled by the seller.
 
Hi Sigmania, thank you very much for the reply!

The serial number on the neck plate is 5 digits: 13125 - Which relates to 1956 Fenders (Tokai says they were 54' replicas).

Looking at the 1981 catalogue, I can see the ST50, 60 and 80 are all available in FO.
(Check the last page: https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/tokai-1981-flat-top-series-catalogue/)

I think this may be the first year they offered FO, but I'm not sure. I don't see ST55's mention much in the catalogues, but in 1985 the ST55 shows up as the only model available in FO. You can find good scans of it here: https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/tokai-club.291100/page-42
The user who posted the scan states it's from 1984, but I looked at that entire catalogue and it's 1985.

I'm guessing it has to be either an ST50, 55, 60 or 80. I just can't work out what the difference is between each model?
 
Flamingo Orange was available as a custom colour too.

Could it be a Tokai made Fender, see page 5 https://www.vintagejapanguitars.com.br/en/fender-japan-1984-catalogue/

Remember catalogues came out in October, so an 85 cat was available Oct 84 etc.

8 screw plate is for maple necks

Metal finish on the hardware can help identify model I.e. chrome or nickel finish.
 
Interesting idea…

I believe 1984 was the year Fender brought legal action against Tokai?

“Tokai was apparently in negotiations with Fender in 1980 and that fell apart when Tokai wanted access to the American market and obviously Fender said no, "possibly because our products oversell their 'CBS's Fenders'"... 8)

So negotiations with Fender beginning in 1980 fail,
this letter is sent to Leo Fender in 1982,
sued by Fender in 1984 and lose to them,
contract with Fender in 1997"”

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25815&hilit=Hamamatsu+factory

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So the question about the tuners saying “Deluxe” was you asking if it was a branded Tokai or Fender?

Some Tokai STs had Kluson style tuners stamped “Deluxe” and some stamped “Tokai”. Not sure if that correlates to specific dates?

So far to me it looks like an ST50 or 60 with a replaced water slide decal.
 

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