1981 Tokai LS-60 Love Rock = ?What Should I Expect?

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guitar hiro

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I recently purchased a 1981 Tokai LS-60 Love Rock model but I don't have the guitar yet.

I assume it is in original condition as the guitar looks to be near pristine.
From looking @ photos the solder in the control route looks untouched.

One thing that looks off are the pickups as they have open (reverse) zebra bobbins.

The 1981 catalog has the LS-60 pictured with double white bobbins.

If the pickups in the guitar are actually original, what should I expect the no cover (reverse) zebra pickups to be?


EDIT:
I did locate another LS-60 with what looks to be the same open (reverse) zebra bobbin pickups but it is a 1984 example; three years later than the 1981 example.
On the 1984 example it has a sticker on the pickup bases showing 'TOKAI '57 PAF MODEL'
Also, just looked at the 1982 Tokai catalog which has the LS-60 pictured with the open (reverse) zebras. :lol:
The '82 catalog list these pickups as MkII pickups.
 
I can tell you are excited.

You are just going to have to wait and see.

I agree, zebras are most likely not original so could be absolutely anything in there! The good news is that wiring and pickups can always be changed 👍
 
Mono said:
I can tell you are excited.

You are just going to have to wait and see.

I agree, zebras are most likely not original so could be absolutely anything in there! The good news is that wiring and pickups can always be changed 👍

not so much excited as just curious. My opinion is the pickups are most likely original, considering the solder points (all) look unmolested in the seller pics.

I did a search here @ the TF and I went through an extreme amount of info: one person stated their 1982 LS-60 had the TOKAI '57 PAF MODEL pickups that they thought were original to the guitar.

I guess I am most curious about the condition of the guitar. The photos imply the guitar is an 'under the bed' & 'crazy clean' example that was left hidden away for decades. As previously noted it looks pristine.

The top finish is BS but the back is cherry. I have seen earlier (than 1981) LS-60 examples that were BS top color that had 'brown' backs & not cherry. This one seems 'odd' in that respect.

I guess the thing that is most curious is the top which is very flamed & includes a bit of birds eye on the large/upper bout. The top could pass for a LS-100, or LS-150; no kidding.



brokentoes said:
Do you have any pics or link to the original ad ??

I copied the seller photos but I don't have a photo host.
 
It looks like a mismatched top to me which might have been left on the woodpile. Nice looking guitar though.
 
Here is what I guess is a 1982 example LS-60 with what looks to be the same type open/no cover (reverse) zebra pickups.

The listings states PU: Original LS-Hot x 2 :lol:

https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop61/DS04632294/

This LS-60 has a very plain looking top & is quite clowny to boot. :p
 
wulfman said:
It looks like a mismatched top to me which might have been left on the woodpile. Nice looking guitar though.

Hi Harold, sounds like you are familiar with the guitar/listing. The seller listed only seven photos, none are that great but were good enough to make a judgement call. Three of the photos show the top but only the photo that is a close-up of the tail piece, bridge, and lead pickup shows up the flame in the lower top half. In this photo the top looks like it could be well matched as the flame in the lower top half looks like a near mirror image of the upper top half.

I thought the ending price would be much higher than where it ended at, particularly for such a clean example with such a great looking solid top.
I put in the minimum bid allowed & no one else bid after my bid. I certainly did not expect to have the winning bid. :lol:
I found out it weighs in at 4.10 kg aka 9.02 lb. Not light but not heavy, just average.
 
The 1981 LS-60 BS should be in my hands by next Wednesday, barring any shipping/customs issues.

Once here I can check the (reverse) zebra bobbin pickups to see what they actually are. :)
 
1981 LS-60 arrived this afternoon & I had the opportunity to check the pickups, which are now no longer a mystery :) but other questions have now come up. :-?

The pickups have brass looking/brass colored bases with the word GOTOH embossed/die stamped into the bases.
The bases have the 'short' ears, not the flat ears I have seen on other Tokai pickups ink stamped 'made by goto.'
These GOTOH embossed bases also do not have the 'long' ears as seen on the 'TOKAI '57 PAF MODEL.'
I have never seen these GOTOH embossed/die stamped, short ear pickups before but then I am not as familiar with vintage Tokai as I am with vintage Greco examples.
Anyone with the experience with Tokai pickups that is willing to chime in, please do so.

Since I have had the opportunity to assess the guitar in person I now have other observations about this example that are not adding up; in a good way. :lol:
The maple top is nearly 'over the top' and is IMO way above the level of a LS-60. I'm seeing LS-100 & LS-150 territory here.
The clear coat seems to have (small) issues in two different locations that tend to suggest a nitro lacquer finish, as I have never seen poly do what I am seeing here.
As mentioned in an earlier post, basically every example of a BS finish I have seen also had the brown colored back; this one has the cherry colored back.
The finger board has a distinctly non linear grain most associated with Brazilian, and the coloration in places is dark red, to black, and with extremely small pores.
Needless to say I am looking at what is IMO an anomalous example.
I'm wondering if I located a 'unicorn.' :lol:
To be continued.
 
Sounds like a normal LS60 form 1981 to me. They had nice fretboard wood. Not Braz though. Does it have the circuit board for electronics ? Maybe check for nitro if you think its a refinish or a higher model.
 
brokentoes said:
Sounds like a normal LS60 form 1981 to me. They had nice fretboard wood. Not Braz though. Does it have the circuit board for electronics ? Maybe check for nitro if you think its a refinish or a higher model.

thanks for the reply: From my (limited) experience with vintage Tokai LS examples, both personal & documented examples I have seen online, this one does not seem to me to be, "a normal LS60" from "1981." I will extrapolate.

(1) the maple top is completely covered side to side, end to end, with flame, figure, and birds eye. The top is nothing short of 'over the top' and could easily pass (IMO) for a LS-100, LS-150, even a LS-200 level solid top. This is not (IMO) what one would expect a maple top from a "normal" LS-60 example to look like; again, IMO.
(2) As far as the fret board lumber: I don't believe it is anything other than typical 'rosewood' but the long grain/linear/annual ring grain is not at all typical for what one witnesses on typical Tokai finger boards from the era. The grain is quite irregular, non leniar, with color variations alternating from a very dark red to black. The pores are very small, similar to Brazilian, yet there are (IMO) too great a number of pores to classify as Brazilian. Also, the 'board does not feel like Brazilian under the fingertips. Having said that, the visual of the finger board could (IMO) easily pass for Brazilian. It is a point of interest; nothing else.
(3) The control route does contain what looks to be an original Tokai type circuit board, replete with all solder points that look to be unmolested, in my best estimation.
(4) I will be checking the finish with acetone & also with a different (secondary) 'lacquer' thinner some time soon to determine what the finish coat may be. Two forms of solvent 'check' will IMO be better than one form of solvent check. I prefer to be thorough.

No matter what I may, or may not conclude concerning this particular (vintage) Tokai example, I am certainly glad I was fortunate enough to have the winning bid & to obtain ownership. This example certainly has to be one of the most intriguing & anomalous examples that I have encountered in many years. I feel pretty fortunate at the moment to have something in my hands that seems to be such a mystery, and at the same time is no doubt a prime example of why we are all here @ the TF & members of this great forum. :)
 
I have seen in the past beautiful LS-60 with a great figured top that was made from two completely mismatched maple pieces.

Guitar Hiro, many words you write, but pictures you do not post.

Can you show us what you are seeing?
 
There's always exceptions to the rule. That is rule # 1.

I have a 1981 Tokai LS120 that is spec'd for a flamed veneer top. You can imagine my dismay when i found it to be a solid flamed maple top. All that quality veneer tone that i love was not to be. You think you are getting one thing and you get yet another. Surprise !! :(

2pzxili.jpg
 
Hi Harold, Going back to what I said in my forth post concerning the seller photos & the top: It was difficult for me to have a really good understanding of the true nature of the top by viewing the three photos that had any image of the top but good enough to make a judgement call.
After viewing the guitar in person your idea proved to be correct: the top is not book matched but looks to be flitch matched with pieces from the same board. For me this is a bonus as I have always been a fan of flitch matched tops; they seem to have more character than a true book match look.

As far as photos: I believe I told you some time ago, and I recently discussed with Marcus, I don't have a photo host. I used to use PhotoFucket & have a ton of pics there but a couple, or three years ago they wanted $399 to continue using their service. :lol: I took two photos of the LS-60 yesterday; a photo of the embossed GOTOH image on the pickup base & a photo of the 'short' ears on the pickups. These are just for reference.

Thanks for posting the clowny LS-60 with the great flitch matched top.
The top on mine has a similar character but seeing a guitar in person can be so much more impressive. :)
I bet that clowny LS-60 looks three, or four times better in person than that photo.
I know my BS example does. 8) Maybe five, or six times better.

I did discover one item that is going to have to be corrected: Every single fret end is slightly elevated & can chew-up some flesh. This fact alone could easily account for the fact that the guitar is a 38 year old example that looks like it is nearly new. With the fret ends posing such a danger to a player's hand & fingers I don't believe the guitar is playable in any practical sense. I will be taking the Tokai to a couple of local luthiers soon to get an opinion on the situation with the fret ends.
This is yet another anomalous feature of this example. I have seen guitars with a fret end here, or there with this issue but to have both ends of every fret on the entire guitar to have the issue is IMO other worldly.
Someone at Tokai really dropped the ball when they did the fret job on this thing.
Not only that but someone also let the thing go out the factory door like this. :evil:
That speaks very poorly of Tokai, IMO.
 
Hey broken, I bet you were really upset with that solid top :lol:
Great example of a 120. Hopefully all of the attributes are to your liking. Congrats 8)
 
wulfman said:
It looks like a mismatched top to me which might have been left on the woodpile. Nice looking guitar though.

If you recall the seller photos it looked like a BS (brown sunburst) example to me.
I saved the seller photos during the listing and compared the top color to a 1980 LS I previously owned that was OS (old sunburst).
The seller photos made the burst color looked very dark/brown when compared to the OS photos I have.
Now that I have the guitar 'in hand' I can say that it is actually the OS top color, which I prefer.
This would explain the cherry color back too.


Tested the finish this morning with acetone & with a second lacquer thinner = no reaction.
Poly as is spec for a LS-60. Still don't understand the 'gummy' nature of these two areas on the finish.
Maybe it is just some type of material stuck to the finish. Will see if I can remove them.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that what left the factory in 1981 is not always what you see come 2019. **** happens and not everyone takes as great care with their gear as the next person. Also Japan is an Island nation, very prone to the effects of the Sea at the very least. Those bad frets might have developed over time.

The gummy spots might have have one time had a sticker or one of those pickholder deals.

Congrats, i'm sure its a beauty. I also like mismatched tops, wish there were more of them.
 
I decided to put a new string set on the LS-60 before taking it to a luthier to get any opinion concerning the high fret ends.
I wanted to check a few things with new strings: tuning stability, playability, truss rod adjustment, etc.
The guitar arrived with five strings, all were loose/not at tuning, and all five strings I had to basically pry from the tail piece.
Hard to believe that every string was loose but completely stuck in the tail piece & required prying them out.
I guess the strings had been on the guitar for years; maybe decades.

The tuning stability is basically perfect, the truss rod works perfectly, and I'm working on tweaking the set-up. :)

I did discover one other thing that I have NEVER seen before, ever. The fret board binding has remnants of fret edge binding under every fret end. :eek:
I'm not kidding; I could not believe what I was seeing. I checked again this morning and the remnants of fret edge binding are THERE.
I really didn't expect them to go away over night :lol: but I have never seen a fret job with fret ends installed over remnants of fret edge binding.
I have never seen this on any guitar, of any brand.

The LS-60 is not supposed to have FEB so, what gives? I do not understand.
My mind goes back to the fingerboard lumber which does not IMO look like typical rosewood from the era, for a LS-60 grade guitar.
The fingerboard lumber looks like it belongs on a much higher grade instrument IMO.

I will most certainly have to have a lutheir look at this and see what they think.
I bet this will make them blink. :lol:
I'm still blinking.

The GOTOH embossed pickups sound surprisingly incredible. This is a huge plus.

I forwarded a couple of crappy flash photos of the maple top to Wulfman & he replied: "That looks amazing" 8)
 
If it is Tokai Love Rock and Les Paul shaped and has a poly finish it has to be either a LS60 OR 50.
The fret edge binding you are describing is hard to picture... Can you upload some photos or send some to me and I can upload for you? My junk email address is Brian dot mageel at Gmail dot com
 
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