Can anyone help to identify this Tokai LP 8 digit

Tokai Forum

Help Support Tokai Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Bioguitarmetal

New member
Joined
Nov 25, 2021
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hello, everyone! I bought my first tokai Les Paul, however I'm not getting reference on the model. The serial is in eight digits, and there are no letters, no indication that there were. I believe it's China. 2009.. UALC-60?

https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/uVFGoSk
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/aBDgBoM
 
This may help. Chinese serial number without letters in the same font as yours.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20753&hilit=sticky

Reborn Old said:
TokaiLoveRock said:
I tried to get another opinion. The real reason why I wanted another opinion is because I've sent mail to http://www.tokaijapan.com/ with pictures and all and they've said that it's 1990 model, made in Korea.

I know for certain the made in China sticker below is authentic and original.

8899679284_09c8dbe9c2_z.jpg

b5PTlaY.png
 
I found this article. and I found some descriptions on other sites, but none with 8 digits like mine..
 
I don't claim to understand the Chinese serial numbering system, but sure looks close to me.
 
I've read about that too. however, the serial would not be centered. I saw Chinese with the initials CN + 8 digits.. or Chinese with only 7 digits. No more like that. 8 without the prefixes.
 
Well... unfortunately there is not a lot of information on the Chinese or Korean Tokais. The majority of the members here are focused on the Japanese builds. The Chinese and Korean models are the entry level models and not a lot of documentation on them. The article I linked was a valiant effort to try and sort out the Korean guitars, but still pretty murky.

From what I can tell it is definitely not made in Japan. If it were it would be clearly marked.

That leaves 3 options: Chinese, Korean, or fake. Since the Chinese are the ones likely to fake guitars, it's more likely that it is a legit Chinese or Korean Tokai IMHO. Just not a lot of money there for the effort. Plus it has the export dimple. I doubt a fake would have that.

Have you opened it up to look for markings on the electronics? Posting pictures on here from under the hood might help.

Here is how to post pics on here:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25951
 
There is more than one Chinese factory making Tokai guitars. Some legit guitars and some hooky ones. The Chinese are only using a licence to make them and not as a sub contractor supplier to Tokai Japan. There are some dealerships around the world now having their own spec Tokai's made from these factories, currently all low model numbers. Tracking and tracing them is impossible.

I once worked for a company as the Engineering director, this company decided to move manufacturing from Europe to China despite me warning them about the potential for cheaper copies hitting the market. The directors only saw potential profit margins increasing. First 6 months went OK and I was derided. Next 12 months saw the company go into liquidation due to cheap copies coming out of the back door of the same factory in China.
 
That’s what I suspected, that the people making the fakes are the same people making the “legit” pieces.

Interesting that it’s a licensing agreement. Do you know if there is any oversight from Tokai Japan? Sounds like the Wild West as they say here in the states.
 
I've seen some models in the Tokai Gakki catalogues of late and there have been pictures of them in the Hammamatsu factory. Whether Tokai have any written agreements on QC or anything is else is anyone's guess but the Chineses are more than capable of making good stuff as much as out the backdoor stuff. One set of ser#'s sent to Tokai Gakki for license payments and another hidden list of backdoor jobbies with or without ser #'s. The other thing to remember when shipping stuff from China, is that full payment up front is the normal and demanded by Central government, this prevents cash voids for them but just try and get refunds on defective goods! You have to ship it back at your costs and await judgement. That was the case upto 2008 anyway.
I've seen direct from China non catalogue Tokais in the UK since the new distributor took over and thy seem reluctant to indicate origin.

EMD Music are the UK Distributor but you can only look at the website after you have been accepted as a dealer and given login rights.
Prices have rocketed to where a current model 50 is around £5<600 and an early 80's MIJ Tokai in good condition struggles to sell on Ebay etc for that money. I know where my money would go. Some guitar shops are no longer selling Tokais due to price rises of late and even claiming that they cannot justify the selling price anymore when compared to other makes available.
 
So considering that, it's possible then that different factories in China have different numbering systems for serial numbers.

Also possible that some are off the books/out the back door.

Hard to know what the story is with the OP guitar considering all of that.
 
Sometimes the 3rd and 4th number indicate the factory, but which one?

Some of the Epiphone Chinese factory codes

12 = DeaWon or Unsung (China, uncertainty remains as to which factory)

15 = Qingdao (China, electric)

16 = Qingdao (China, acoustic)

17 = Unknown (China)

20 = DaeWon or Unsung (China, uncertainty remains as to which factory)

As to the OP, most certainly Chinese and that's enough really.
 
Further to the company I worked for using a Chinese factory to make their stuff. I inspected the factory and methods, also setting out QC limits etc. First few consignments met all expectations, then the crap started creeping in and increasingly, as each shipment came into the UK. Waiting until you had enough to fill a container to return took time and money and also curbed sales. The Chinese setup a satellite business in Spain and filled a warehouse with stock under a different brand name. The financial crisis hit, sales dropped enough to fold the company and the Spanish warehouse opened up fully and took the market.
This has happened to more than a few businesses over time.

I took the opportunity to go back into the world of Academic research in Material Science, focusing on Light Alloys for Aerospace and Automotive industries and some Military stuff mainly, followed by medical applications and a few F1 projects. I also developed techniques for welding dissimilar metals together like Mg to Al and Ti to Steel. 3d metal printing and composite to Ti joining.
 
here's a Tokai Legacy seen on Ebay UK. sticky tape ser number, JDM headstock and not the usual made in China sticker.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284546641846

Australian dealer version, same headstock but totally different ser# https://tokaiguitarsaustralia.com.au/collections/legacy/products/tokai-legacy-series-left-handed-es-style-electric-guitar-cherry

Tokai Leagacy sold in the UK legit dealer https://www.dawsons.co.uk/224903/tokai-legacy-series-sg-style-electric-guitar-black

backdoor, fake or whatever.

s-l1600.jpg
 
As far as I am concerned, this guitar remains a mystery as to where it was made.

reborn old has said that no legitimate Korean Tokai LP had a serial number. So if he is right, your guitar is either Chinese, or an illegitimate Korean build.

I am leaning towards Chinese since the Korean fakes I think I have seen have really home made looking clumsy serial numbers that seemed to have been applied by hand. Yours was laid on perfectly. I am leaning towards Chinese.

I'm trying to sort all this out in another thread, and this guitar is a stand out, and still a mystery in my opinion.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26751
 

Latest posts

Back
Top