Help me identify my Tokai Love Rock

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ctripblog

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Hi, I just bought this Tokai Love Rock, but I cant find the exact model it is!
I attached some pictures, to help me identify it!
thanks a lot!





 
Vintage-series Japanese flametop model, 2019 so I think that would make it an LS136F?

You need to raise the tailpiece, it looks like the strings are touching the back of the bridge. That much downward pressure from the strings can cause the bridge to collapse, sagging in the middle and throwing off the saddle radius. From a couple of pictures it looks like that's already happening.
 
Paladin2019 said:
Vintage-series Japanese flametop model, 2019 so I think that would make it an LS136F?

You need to raise the tailpiece, it looks like the strings are touching the back of the bridge. That much downward pressure from the strings can cause the bridge to collapse, sagging in the middle and throwing off the saddle radius. From a couple of pictures it looks like that's already happening.

I have a 2020 Tokai LS136 and just set up action and intonation today and I realized that the tailpiece was set up exactly like in the pic. It came like that from the factory so I guess Tokai wants it that way.
 
I know for me personally I set all of my Gibson types with the stop tail as far down/close to the body top as possible; never had an issue. :D
 
guitar hiro said:
I know for me personally I set all of my Gibson types with the stop tail as far down/close to the body top as possible; never had an issue. :D

The severity varies from guitar to guitar and can take years to affect playability. I most definitely have had an issue more than once on my Love Rock, but I use heavy strings in standard tuning. I now use a stainless steel bridge (made by ABM in Greece, much cheaper than the Callahan equivalent made in the US) which is structurally a lot stronger so it should never collapse, and it sounds great too 8)

If Tokai are doing this setup from the factory then that's worrying, because they shouldn't be. Google "les paul bridge collapse" to see why it's a problem.
 
Paladin2019 said:
guitar hiro said:
I know for me personally I set all of my Gibson types with the stop tail as far down/close to the body top as possible; never had an issue. :D

The severity varies from guitar to guitar and can take years to affect playability. I most definitely have had an issue more than once on my Love Rock, but I use heavy strings in standard tuning. I now use a stainless steel bridge (made by ABM in Greece, much cheaper than the Callahan equivalent made in the US) which is structurally a lot stronger so it should never collapse, and it sounds great too 8)

If Tokai are doing this setup from the factory then that's worrying, because they shouldn't be. Google "les paul bridge collapse" to see why it's a problem.

I have read about the concept of ABR-1 type bridge collapse but after a few decades, and well over 200 examples through my hands with ABR-1 style bridges, all made by a few different manufacturers, I have yet to experience a single bridge collapse.
Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket? :lol:
Yep, I understand the concept & I understand others have experienced it but I don't believe it's a prevalent issue for the majority.
 
guitar hiro said:
I have read about the concept of ABR-1 type bridge collapse but after a few decades, and well over 200 examples through my hands with ABR-1 style bridges, all made by a few different manufacturers, I have yet to experience a single bridge collapse.
Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket? :lol:
Yep, I understand the concept & I understand others have experienced it but I don't believe it's a prevalent issue for the majority.

I've had the same guitar for 20 years and it has a steeper neck angle than most, which adds to the break angle at the bridge and tailpiece especially if anyone were to screw it all the way down. If you've had 200 gibson types over a similar time scale then could I suggest you may not have have had them long enough to develop noticeable problems? It normally takes years of sustained pressure for the dip to develop and even longer for the D and G strings to become imbalanced/buzzy.

IMO the reason it's not a problem for most is that most people don't screw down their tailpieces that hard, not every player uses heavy strings, and not every guitar has the same neck geometry. It's not inevitable, but bridge collapse is extremely common. Nobody has to take my word for it, just spend a few minutes googling it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8GHkouWD0U

Anyone who might be worried that their guitar is affected (including OP above), next time you change strings get a straight edge and lay it flat against the top of your bridge. If there's a gap in the middle you may want to raise your tailpiece. A bridge can be bent back into shape in a vise, or by a competent tech if you're worried about it. Even if you mess it up, Gotoh bridges are cheap to replace. Or go stainless steel if you never want to worry about it again!
 
I agree with Paladin.
Dan Erlewine - who is the guru of keeping a guitar healthy - advises that you should be able to slip a piece of paper between the strings and the edge of the bridge frame. That's how I've set all mine up.
 
Ok, I checked the bridge, its ok the little gap, or the bridge is already collapsed?



thanks!
 
It has started to collapse and would benefit from repair or replacement. The simplest solution would be to bend it back into place which you can do at home if you have a vise and some scrap wood. A tech could also refile the saddles to the appropriate radius and leave the bridge body as it is.

Whatever you do you will need to raise the tailpiece so it doesn't happen again or get worse with time.
 
thanks, I attached a pic from the saddles, I think they still have the correct radius, the guitar is from 2019, but has been bought at the end of 2020, I alreay raise a little bit the tailpiece.

 
That should slow down any further movement of the bridge and keep the appropriate level of pressure on the strings. If you're unsure that the radius is correct you can buy radius gauges online. They are curved lives of metal which you rest on the strings to see if they all touch the gauge.
 

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