Tokai 3 pickup Firebird copy in red

[Amp Guy]

Hi there, I'm new here. I have a red Tokai Firebird originally advertised by a pawn shop as a Lovebird. It has 3 pickups but clearly never had a vibrola like Firebird VII copies would have. I'm looking for clues as to year, country of manufacture, model number. It has no serial number on the headstock. It does have a curious rectangular shape 1" by 2.5" on the back of the headstock where something must have been. The paint on that area seems to have been marred by something adhesive that changed the texture and chemistry of the paint. It is hardly visible as the paint is still red, just feels different. Any help would be appreciated. When I got it it looked old and dirty but I've cleaned it up. It also came already set up with the precision of an Ibanez Jem or something. Really fun to play. It is not a metallic paint job. Did Tokai ever use stick on metal plates for serials? Or MIK, MIJ or MIC labels?

 

[Sigmania]

Not sure.

MIC should have a serial number. MIJ should too, but I have seen all paint MIJ Tokais with no apparent serial number.

Have you pulled the pickups and taken pictures? There might be markings in the cavities. Also the pickups themselves may hold clues.

That nut at first glance does not look like a bone nut and has a steep angle.

I am leaning towards Korean, but not conclusive.

 

[Sigmania]

Korean Tokais

1998


2003

 

[Amp Guy]

Not sure.

MIC should have a serial number. MIJ should too, but I have seen all paint MIJ Tokais with no apparent serial number.

Have you pulled the pickups and taken pictures? There might be markings in the cavities. Also the pickups themselves may hold clues.

That nut at first glance does not look like a bone nut and has a steep angle.

I am leaning towards Korean, but not conclusive.

Thank you for this. Another clue is that the inlays reflect in a very light purple hue. I'll post more pickups and pots pics to help.

 

[Amp Guy]

Thank you Sigmania! As promised here are some pics that may reveal clues: the pots inside just say A500K with an ohm sign. The bridge says BR EG underneath. The pickups are wax potted. The bridge fits into posts and not screwed directly into the body like my 1985 Tokai LC. There's a pic here of that mark on the back of the headstock which was probably a store logo I figure. Can't get the hardened glue off using Goo Gone. Purple hue in the frets is evident in some pics. Also fret over binding can be seen. No nibs on this guitar. Middle pickup wire has not been connected to the pickup switch although that middle pup wire runs into the switch cavity. Electronics are currently like a Les Paul with 2 volumes and 2 tone controls. Not my doing. Wiring looks pro but what do I know. Could it be a custom order and not a mass produced one? Don't know. Middle pup cavity is obviously done in the factory and that pup is also wax potted. Curiously the middle pup cavity has no red paint like the bridge one. The wood is light blonde in colour without paint in that one. Thanks for your time and opinion on this. Very much appreciated. Trying to figure out what country it came from and when.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks for the info. Do you have any pics of the cavities?

 

[Amp Guy]

You can see the one cavity behind the neck pickup pics. It has red paint. I'll take pics of the other cavities soon. I put some boiled linseed oil on the fretboard and it's drying right now. The middle pup cavity is light blonde wood with no black or red paint. It is factory cut by the look of the shape and routering.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks. It is really hard to see into the cavities in those pics. The cavities will tell us volumes potentially so it is important to have as clear and unobstructed pictures as you can get.

From what I am seeing I am thinking Korean. Will see what better piectures show us.

Mini pots say China or Korea if original.

Waxed pickups says MK3 or 4 if original.

And a Chinese guitar would have a serial number unless it was removed.

The sticky stuff may either be a dealer sticker or a "Fakai" label.

See this thread to see what the Fakai stickers looked like.

Manufactured Under License For... Fakais

 

[Sigmania]

From what little I can see of this cavity it looks like it has been modified tbh.

Paint should be covering the sides of the cavity. That looks fresh.

And you can see tears in the wood fibers on the right at the edge. Would not have left the factory like that.

 

[Sigmania]

At this point, I can say pretty confidently that it is not a Japanese Tokai.

If it is a Tokai, then it would be Korean or Chinese.

That light colored fretboard wood shows up on lower priced models made in Korea and China.

The question besides it being Korean or Chinese is whether it is an authorized Tokai? Lots of unlicensed guitars out there withTokai on the headstock. Many of them are nice players from what I have heard. Just can be difficult to nail down their origin.

 

[Amp Guy]

Hi Sigmania, thanks again. Here are clear pics of the cavities as well as the wiring. As you can see, all three cavities actually do have red paint. As for wiring, a previous owner has cut the wire from the switch to the middle pup. I dragon clipped that connection to see what the original combinations would have been. Position 1: neck and middle, position 2: all three pups, position 3: middle and bridge. Neck volume pot controlled position 1, either volume controlled pos. 2, bridge volume controlled pos. 3. This wiring made it impossible to hear any of the pickups alone. By cutting that wire the resulting 2 pup Les Paul configuration is obviously better. (I should just put a switch in and then I could have either NM, NMB, MB, or switch off the middle pup for N, NB, B.) The body isn't one piece as i can see a straight line in the paint but couldn't capture it by camera. The wood in the body is pretty plain to see whatever it is. Thanks again for having the time of day for this. I certainly am learning a lot.

 

[Sigmania]

Thanks.

Looks like the body was made for 3 pickups, but the openings were modded to fit them after the body was painted. Not sure by whom.

And the routs for the tabs for the pickups are definitely not Tokai Japan. They are oval in shape, and Tokai Japan are square with rounded corners.

My best guess is made in Korea.

Lots of examples of both authorized and unauthorized guitars made in Korea from the mid 90s up until 2008 or so. This guitar is probably from somewhere in that period, but not sure when it was made exactly.

 

[Amp Guy]

Thanks so much Sigmania. I can see that the logo on mine is like the one in your thread "Manufactured under licence for....Fakais" That thread is a treasure of information I must say. Manufactured Under License For... Fakais
Good to know that the quality back at that time was good generally whether authorized or not. What does the body look like it is? I see layers which would suggest either plywood or layers of routering.

 

[Sigmania]

I can't tell if it is plywood or not from the pics. It may just be flat sawn wood (parallel to the grain).

But in the 90s the lower end Korean guitars were sometimes plywood.

Notice how this Korean built AST LTD in the 1998 catalog is listed as having a plywood body.

It is painted so they can get away with it.

 

[Amp Guy]

Okay, thanks Sigmania. It's refreshing to see Tokai catalogue plainly stating the wood in some of those is plywood. When I enlarge the pics I get some good close ups of the wood. I would think plywood is usually a little more striped as the layers are at right angles to each other but I'm no expert. thanks again. you've really gone the extra mile on this one. Can't thank you enough.

 

[Sigmania]

You’re welcome. Also in plywood they reverse the grain between layers for strength. It’s hard to see in the pics but I didn’t notice that happening.

 

[Amp Guy]

Ah yes, I see. I have an old Chinese Washburn from about 1985 or so. It is definitely plywood. I had fun jigsawing it and painting it to make it more interesting. I felt it was too symmetrical. The wood is strong because it has withstood being spun around on my arm on stage many times! I added a set of Grovers and put BCN Custom on the headstock. Fun guitar. Thanks for having a look!

 

[Sigmania]

I could be wrong about the grain. Plywood for instruments may not alternate like that.