1981 LS120 Solid top intonation abr bridge issue. Refret saga.

[moodyedge]

Just had this 81 LS120 refretted and after being set up it appears the bridge needs replaced. The saddles are rattling/killing frequencies on certain notes and cancelling out the sustain. They don't ring out like they should. The G string is the worst and the sloppy bridge seems to be to blame. Another problem is the adjustment for intonation, or lack of, is maxed out. Is there a bridge with the metric spacing that gives more adjustment of the saddles? Gotoh make a Nashville style one but I don't like the look of it.

Faber is the obvious choice but that wont give me any more saddle adjustment that I require.
Has anybody forked out for the solid brass locking faber abr? Is it worth it at over twice the price of the standard 59 one with brass saddles?

Another thing, the guy said the truss rods on tokais can be weird..they are bent further down towards the headstock, therefore any adjustments made only really affect the first 4 frets down from the headstock. The first fret may need adjusting as I have some buzz on the low E after a delayed reaction to a truss rod adjustment he had made before I collected the guitar. He said he has seen it before with tokai in particular.





The frets are taller than what was on it and the guitar plays better. It was a bit of a pig before but now the notes sings and bends are easier.

I also had some unpotted bare knuckle mules fitted and so far I am not a fan. The guitar came with old PRS pickups in which weren't bad but I have a BK stormy monday in another les paul so thought I'd try the mules. They are too thick/fat sounding in the mids and I have an orange rock head so they don't seem to gel. A disappointing discovery after spending an extra £350 to find this out. I guess I like sweet highs and scooped mid like the stormy monday..at least with the orange.

I think I will be looking for another pickup that have a lot of clarity, bite, honk and yet sweet highs....Think the Gary Moore stripe 59. I have watched so many videos to decide on the mules but in reality I don't think they are the ones. The guitar is very resonant and the mules seem to add mids it doesn't need.

Thoughts?

Cheers

 

[frehley76]

I am not a fan of the Mules either, bought a set expecting more. I much prefer Wizz.

 

[moodyedge]

I am not a fan of the Mules either, bought a set expecting more. I much prefer Wizz.

How did you find them?

 

[Omiewise65]

Get a nut file , the right one, and file the slot slowly and with patience. Then change strings .
Good files are expensive but worth every penny .

 

[frehley76]

How did you find them?

The mules are fizzy to me, not robust if that makes sense. The Wizz are full and clear.

 

[57goldtop]

Lovely looking LS120 you have there.

Regarding pickups, my '83 LS50 has alnicos with "Tokai 57 PAF Model" stickers on them and are as good a sounding LP pickup as I've ever played. Worth a look if you can find a set but make sure you get the alnicos and not the ceramic type which are super hot! I've not played any BK LP pickups but I wasn't impressed with their tele or their strat pickups.

My LS50 came with an aftermarket no name ABR which was a bit rattley so I bought a Faber ABRM-NA to replace it. There is a little more adjustment than the bridge it replaced but it's still almost maxed out on the bass side. I also bought their thumbscrews, tailpiece and studs to match which made a very positive difference tonally.

Looking at those frets, they look too flat on the tops as if they've been dressed down but not very well crowned..... that could well be the cause of your intonation problems. If it was me I'd be looking for someone to crown them properly and to check the nut has been cut properly while they're at it.

 

[frehley76]

Here is my LS60 with a recent fret job for comparison.

 

[Freebird]

I am surprised that the refret did not include a set up to address all the issues related to the guitar playing well, like string height, bridge adjustment, intonation, etc. Any guitar I pay for any work I would hope that it would play better than before I brought it in.

 

[Jlee]

If you are still having issues with the bridge after the fret work is sorted, the Tonepros metric bridge is in between a Nashville and ABR.

 

[chuckyz2]

I agree with the post above about the fret job not including a proper setup. Especially not crowning the frets and polishing them.
I would be suspect of everything if my guitar came back like that.
I never trust anyone to work on my cars and guitars. I took the time to learn how to do setups and bought all the tools to do so.
That includes being able to level the fretboard and frets, crown and polish the tops correctly, how to set up a nut so it is intonated
with the top frets.
With flat top frets the string will land on the nut side of the fret instead of in the middle. That in itself will get you intonated. Or leave you the room to intonate. My Tokai ES's and LS's barely intonate with perfect setups. Neck relief at a minimum and low action makes them intonate as good as can be expected all the way up and down the fretboard. Tokai puts the frets in the right places. The bridge however could have been forward a little on the top (smallest) string.
Proper setups really bring out the best of a guitar. Most guitars don't have a proper setup. Never judge a guitar until it is setup properly.
I have made a lot of ****** guitars come alive and sound amazing.

 

[moodyedge]

I also posted this thread on the other single cut section on the mylespaul forum and was subsequently piled on.


__________________________________________________________________________________________

This guitar set up years ago not long after buying it but I never really got on with it. Consequently it has sat in the case for almost a decade. The frets were simply too low so it was a bit of a pig to play. Having recently started to get back into playing again after years away, I thought a spruce up was in order.

Deciding to stay local due to not wanting to risk shipping the guitar off somewhere random, based on this thread, I wish I'd done the opposite.

Having now looked at it closely, I see that basically every fret other than one (1st) is not seated. Some are seated on one side and not the other. I'm feeling rather miffed at this discovery.

My playing style involves a lot of aggressive/wide vibrato and bends so it needs to be right. It does feel better than it did because the previous frets were very low and my fingers felt too close to the board. It is 43 years old after all.

Found a picture from some years ago and noticed how different the bridge saddle positions were.

I was originally on a mission to have the headstock logo restored to the proper one, but gave up on that due to not being able to get a proper MOP tokai inlay.

The plan now is to speak to Charlie Chandler based in London next week. They refretted Gary Moores Stripe and that seemed to work ok.

 

[Sigmania]

Sorry you have had so much trouble with this.

I had a 1981 LS120 that was the best sounding and playing Les Paul I have ever met. I only sold it because it had a top separation in the flamed veneer. I still regret selling that 10 years later.

Good luck getting it sorted out.

 

[moodyedge]

Sorry you have had so much trouble with this.

I had a 1981 LS120 that was the best sounding and playing Les Paul I have ever met. I only sold it because it had a top separation in the flamed veneer. I still regret selling that 10 years later.

Good luck getting it sorted out.

Yes, it has turned into a slight nightmare. As for the headstock logo...That has ticked me off since I bought it, but it is what it is. Part of the story as they say .

After asking faber in Germany, they said they would get more stock of them in 2025, having previously asked them before and being told no they cant get them. Not sure they understood the question but hopefully they can get the proper inlay, not a transfer. Then the search for somebody competent to do that will begin.



Then I will likely buy a momose or g'seven and put this back in its case...

 

[guitar hiro]

Yes, it has turned into a slight nightmare. As for the headstock logo...That has ticked me off since I bought it, but it is what it is. Part of the story as they say .

After asking faber in Germany, they said they would get more stock of them in 2025, having previously asked them before and being tolds no they cant get them. Not sure they understood the question but hopefully they can get the proper inlay, not a transfer. Then the search for somebody competent to do that will begin.



Then I will likely buy a momose or g'seven and put this back in its case...

I haven't played any G'seven examples as they are IMO cost prohibitive but I can imagine they are likely excellent guitars.
I would love to get my hands on a lighter weight example to see what all the fuss is about.

I can easily recommend the Momose brand as I have owned a few examples.
Their ES type (MES) are IMO amazing guitars, particularly the original run examples from 2012/2013.
Their LP type (MLS) examples from the original run come up for sale on occasion but not often.
Some are a bit heavy but if you can locate one with a weight that suits you then that's even better.

One of my top three favorite carved top LP types is a circa 2005 MLS-STD/J HB that I have had for nearly 11 years.
Just about everything with this MLS is 'right' for my taste; the weight, the neck, the playability, the sonic response of the lumber, etc. and of course the typical quality Momose builds are known for.
My MLS weighs in at just under 8 lb. - 5 oz. in its' current configuration.
I would put my MLS up against any and all carved top LPs I have ever owned, from any brand and/or maker.
Great thing about the MLS is it didn't break the bank nearly 11 years ago like a G'seven would break the bank in today's $$$$.

Good luck

 

[currypowder]

Then I will likely buy a momose or g'seven and put this back in its case...

I have quite a bit of experience with g'7 guitars owning 2 LPs, 2 Teles and a Strat.

Each of the LPs and one of the Teles are among my my favorites of all time. The 2013 Darkburst that comes in at 8.5 pounds is the LP I play the most. Everything about it speaks to me, the material, workmanship, vintage feel, playability and tone.

The 2022 Greenburst is a bit heavier at 10.1 pounds. But outside the weight, it has the same qualities as the darkburst and has a definite "Greeny" look to it.

There is a pretty big premium for these over other high end MIJ brands like Crews LED, Momose or Tokai 4-500 level models. Is it worth it? Well, to me it is. I like having a hand built guitar that plays, looks and sounds great. But that's not to suggest that the other brands are in some way subpar.

G'7 has, for the most part, stopped using Brazilian RW for their LP fretboards and have switched to Madagascar. So they're easier to import now (but not necessarily cheaper). Both of mine are earlier models with Brazilian RW.

Funny thing is that I listed the Darkburst for sale a few months ago in a fit of "I don't need 2". Fortunately, nobody bit and I came to my senses. These are both now in the keeper section of the collection. I think these along with my 2003 LS-320 and, perhaps, a Crews LED, would be the last ones out the door if it ever came to that.

 

[moodyedge]

Spoke to Chandlers...they guy there was very interested when I told him what it was. Said he used to have a vintage tokai and he wishes he never got rid of it, commenting they are brilliant guitars. Didn't expect they'd be at all interested or know what it was. There's a waiting list so the plan is to get it down to them in a few months and leave it.

 

[moodyedge]

They are a lot more expensive than momose or even crews.....I've been wondering why if those two builders are held in such high regard. Do you know who builds them?

All I can see is a shop in shinjuku where they sell them, but nothing about where they are made. Adds to the mystique.

The neck pickup position on the G7s is different than 99% of other les paul type builds...ie seems accurate and inline with the 50s bursts with a gap between the pickup ring and the neck, having said that, some bursts did and some didn't?

 

[currypowder]

They are a lot more expensive than momose or even crews.....I've been wondering why if those two builders are held in such high regard. Do you know who builds them?

All I can see is a shop in shinjuku where they sell them, but nothing about where they are made. Adds to the mystique.

The neck pickup position on the G7s is different than 99% of other les paul type builds...ie seems accurate and inline with the 50s bursts with a gap between the pickup ring and the neck, having said that, some bursts did and some didn't?

I have no direct knowledge, but I have never seen any indication that their guitars are outsourced and not made in their shop. My assumption is that like any small builder with a very limited capacity, their prices probably reflect that vs. brands like Momose & Crews that can produce in larger quantities.

That being said, I won't say that a g7 is "better" than a Crews or Momose, though they are likely to be more vintage accurate if that's what you're looking for. Crews specifically says they are not trying to recreate a vintage burst, rather they are building guitars that are reminiscent of vintage with modern appointments and vintage tone. I think they have been largely successful in that regard. I would also describe Momose MLS models as more modern feeling with a few "not-vintage accurate" features.

In my opinion, the g7s certainly have a more vintagey look and feel than Crews LEDs or Momose models. But I can also honestly say that all of these (along with my Tokais) are outstanding guitars that are very well made using premium materials, play as well as any LP I've ever owned and have the tone you would expect in a good LP type model.

I'm assuming that this is the site you've found for g7 - https://g7g.biz/

 

[moodyedge]

They had 8 guitars made that were in the shop. Not sure how many are left. They seem expensive with such limited information available. Have you noticed the gap between the neck pickup ring and the end of the fingerboard on the G7s? Some bursts had that but some didn't, which is odd.

I posted on a deviser thread earlier about them being weight relieved....Takes off some of the appeal for me.

 

[currypowder]

I have a Momose ML1 that is not weight relieved. But I'm unsure if the MLS1s are all weight relieved.