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Strange eBay Listing for Bacchus BSG-61

 
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:49 am    Post subject: Strange eBay Listing for Bacchus BSG-61 Reply with quote

Recently saw this eBay listing for a Bacchus BSG-61


(Listing title) Bacchus BSG 2001 Handmade Series, ‘61 SG, MIJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bacchus-BSG-2001-Handmade-Series-61-SG-MIJ-/283334906607?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137


Why is it strange? Well, there are a few things that seem strange, to me.

The guitar is listed as a 2001 but I had the very same model example within four serial # digits, and mine had the original warranty card dated to the first week of February, 2005. The warranty card was stamped from Sonix. My example had the Bacchus logo just as the example in the eBay listing.

The eBay listing states "Part of the Handmade Series" but the warranty card for my identical example is the old school 'Vintage Series' format, which has the quote, "Bacchus - BEGINNING OF THE NEW TRADITION." Without a doubt, this coincides near the end time frame of the Vintage Series. Also, this model is a 'vintage correct' example. I have yet to see a single HandMade series guitar that is 'vintage correct.'

The listing states, "Neck was reset by a previous owner. Corner of the neck joint was cracked and reglued in the process. I don’t know the reason for the reset."
It also states, "Guitar frets were leveled and dressed a month ago. I also added a little fret fall away from the 15th fret on .... "
With the neck re-set I assume the described 'fret fall away' is likely to compensate for the re-set being off.

Of course the asking price was in the ballpark for a MII, or MIK guitar
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From another forum I know the seller and the new owner of this guitar. I was going to buy it myself when it came up but since i have an oil stain no serial Live Road SG I decided to pass even though it was worth it for the hardware, pups, and case alone. I don't know much about Bacchus except i like the ones i have and IMO that was a steal.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brokentoes wrote:
From another forum I know the seller and the new owner of this guitar. I was going to buy it myself when it came up but since i have an oil stain no serial Live Road SG I decided to pass even though it was worth it for the hardware, pups, and case alone. I don't know much about Bacchus except i like the ones i have and IMO that was a steal.


No doubt that Bacchus (Deviser Corp.) has made some great guitars over the years
I have owned a ton of Deviser made products & still have about a dozen.

The Gibson SG hard case has to be worth around a 'C note'

I have been buying & selling guitars since I was a teenager so, over four decades.
I just find it odd when people misrepresent what they are selling, purposefully, or not.
It brings to mind the LS-320, that turned into a LS-200, that looks like it has pickups from Mars.
http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=24687

I'm into a lot of things; firearms for one.
When I see folks listing firearms for sale I rarely see the 'disinformation' I see when folks are attempting to peddle guitars.
Folks in the firearm community sure seem to be much more informed & honest about what they have in their hands.

Some times it's nearly embarrassing to be a member of the larger guitar community because I often see things that just make me cringe.
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So is there anyway to decode the serial number or know what series it is ? Warranty cards should be dated at purchase wouldn't they ?? No point buying a new guitar that's already past its warranty would there ? I would be happy to pass any info along but i don't think there was any real obvious deception by the seller. Not everyone has the knowledge on every brand of guitar out there.

Firearms and guitars are quite different purchases. Bad gun deals can turn south in worse ways faster i'm betting.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know there is no way to determine manufacture time frames from the serial numbers on Bacchus examples.
I have seen enough dated warranty card examples to 'triangulate' rough time frames for manufacture to within 1 to 2 years, at most, with a very high level of confidence.
The warranty card examples with penciled in dates are indeed for original date of sale.
In my experience Bacchus Vintage Series era examples did not utilize pots that are coded thus that potential avenue of dating examples is moot.
We also need to remember that many Bacchus examples are not in any catalog.
I have on many occasion contacted Deviser to help with IDing & dating examples; at times they have been very helpful.
Any seller that does not have the experience and/or knowledge really should not be embellishing information, for any item, or brand.
That is how disinformation is spread and then rumor often becomes 'fact' within the community, which is really a dis-service to the larger community.
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's too bad about the serial number not being able to be decoded. Neither of my Live Roads have serials though. When the pickups and wiring harness/electronics get swapped out it gets even harder to figure out i'd imagine. What series are my no serials from ?? I guess i never cared enough to know but if i should ever sell .......
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brokentoes wrote:
That's too bad about the serial number not being able to be decoded. Neither of my Live Roads have serials though. When the pickups and wiring harness/electronics get swapped out it gets even harder to figure out i'd imagine. What series are my no serials from ?? I guess i never cared enough to know but if i should ever sell .......


I assume these have the Live Road Model logo & the Bacchus marquee on the head stock face?

These could likely have an approximate date of manufacture established by observing certain attributes: style of tenon construction, body back piece(s)/1 or 2 piece, and bridge (if original).

Without seeing them & going by what you have said so far, they may be BLS-95 examples, if they are MIJ.
If that is the case they would be from circa 1996/1997.
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SG




DC Jr. (photo's by previous owner)


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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, those are certainly not BLS-95

The SG looks like the BR-OIL (brown oil) color, from what little you demonstrate.
With not much to go on, I would say that is most likely a 1998/1999 BSG-68V.

The double cut in WH is most likely from the same era, 1998/1999 BLJ-59V.

I would guess they both have 2 piece/center seam bodies, based on my experience.

Some of the later BLJ-59V examples with serial #s did have 1 piece bodies.
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, both are center seamed.

I do like the brown oil finish on the SG, and the inlays are very nice. Could be real mother of seashell. The Jr is just one of my favourite electric guitar designs ever. I have a Tokai TJ-60 and i have to give the edge to the Bacchus.

I understand the need for accuracy, and i certainly don't care for people who are out to scam but in my experience buying online or from forums has been good. Most people are just trying to sell an axe, and the few times that the item wasn't as described the seller and I have worked it out mutually. Maybe i've been lucky.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, you believe there is nothing wrong with spreading disinformation, such as the guy with the (fake) LS-320 did, or listing guitars for sale that contain embellishments by the seller that are blatantly erroneous?

Don't get me wrong; I'm not the 'guitar police' but as I stated earlier these types of things offer the greater community a dis-service.
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brokentoes
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No i don't believe in scam artists, but i do believe some onus is also on the buyer to do proper diligence when buying off ebay or forums. If something is listed incorrectly then there's grounds for correction in either a return or price adjustment. Any reputable seller would honour their mistake.

Sharing your knowledge on model numbers and dating is a resource, sharing it on this forum will help with clarity as Japanese guitar manufacturers are not the easiest to figure out.
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guitar hiro
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brokentoes wrote:
No i don't believe in scam artists, but i do believe some onus is also on the buyer to do proper diligence when buying off ebay or forums. If something is listed incorrectly then there's grounds for correction in either a return or price adjustment. Any reputable seller would honour their mistake.

Sharing your knowledge on model numbers and dating is a resource, sharing it on this forum will help with clarity as Japanese guitar manufacturers are not the easiest to figure out.


DYODD is certainly a mantra for anyone to exercise before making any purchase, IMO.

Sharing info on forums is a good thing, only if the information is reliable.
Believe me, I have seen some things put out there on forums that also make me cringe; this one included.
People will often take bad information from forums as reliable aka 'fact.'
Often times people are like, 'I read it on an internet forum so, it must be true.'

I see the Bacchus brand in particular as being one of the MIJ brands that many seem to comment about yet many seem to have little knowledge of.
My (limited) knowledge of Bacchus was built on many years of reading, and many purchases of Bacchus examples.
There is a ton I still don't know & likely never will but IMO Bacchus is one of the most interesting brands out there.
Attempting to obtain info from Deviser Corp. for older instruments has become even more difficult than it was ten years ago.
Also, locating good examples of older Bacchus is becoming much more difficult, and that doesn't help either.
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peacock72
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just stumbled onto this thread! I am the previous owner. Guitar was sold to me from Russia and described as a 2001 Handmade. Seller did not disclose the neck reset or crack. If you google 2001 Bacchus Handmade SG, the Reverb listing that I purchased the guitar, from should pop up.

I did try to gather more info on the guitar while it was in my possession, but info on Bacchus in general is pretty scarce. I can assure you I was not attempting to up-sell the specs and or model or misinform any potential buyers, especially at the price I sold it for! Trust me when I say I lost a lot of money on that sale. A lot! I would love to find another BSG with the same specs. Despite, the issues, it was my most played guitar among a ‘80 LS80, ‘81 Ls120 and ‘81 ES100J.
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