Is this a LS320?

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aroomstudios

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Is this a 320? Looks like a dark FB to me (Jacaranda ). But I hear other saying Jacaranda translates to something else in Japanese. And is not actually Jacaranda but Brazilian. Anyways it clearly does not look like Ebony to me. Wondering if the seller is trying to pass off a 200 as a 320.

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai20010.jpg

The reason I say this is it does not looks like it has fret edge binding (NIBS). Yeah, I know the 2nd pic below sort of looks like NIBS but the other pics do not. Really hard to tell. I could be totally wrong. I asked the seller for more pics and cavity shots etc. It does not have the pickguard drilled and it looks like they just did this on the 320 (would not drill it) and not the 200 but you could order anything custom from Tokai so who knows. It does looks like a really nice AAAA top. But could that also be ordered for a 200 custom? I know Tokai does weird stuff on custom orders. I actually have placed a custom order with Tokai before for a breezy. I order so much extra custom stuff SEB, nitro tuners bridge etc. They kept the model number the same though. I would have though with all the upgrades the number would have doubled or tripped.

The thing that is funny is the guitar is 60 miles away from me. So I can easily drive over there and see it. But I do not want to waste my time if it is a 200. And do not want to spend 320 money on a 200 either.

It is a 2002 from the SN
serial# 0205503


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togps said:
Don't buy a Tokai Premium guitar without its COA..

A premium model from 2002 would not have one. I still have the original hang tags, receipt, warranty, even the shipping label from mine and there was no COA. I would definitely have kept it if there had been!

To me it looks like a 200. The top looks very, very similar to mine and mine certainly wasn't a special order - they just picked out **** nice tops. The fretboard could easily be ebony and it has the same uniform, ungrained appearance as mine. The absence of FEB is a big factor in my determination but there are several other things that can easily be checked.

1 - Aluminium tailpiece - the 320 had an alu TP, the 200 would have a normal heavy tailpiece.
2 - Electronics - The 320 had CTS pots and oil caps. The 200 had regular mid-range electronics (alpha pots, little green caps).
3 - Pickups - 200s had Gotohs, 320's had SD Seth Lovers.

They were also pretty good at writing the model number in the neck pickup cavity during these years. More pictures are needed from the seller.
 
@Paladin2019

Thanks for the info about the caps. I did not know there was a difference from the models. I knew about the Seth Lovers and the Aluminum tail piece. Though those two are easily replaced. The FEB it the one thing that cannot be easily replaced. Though a Luther can do it.

I have seen a few cavity shots with a 320 stamp in the neck PU cavity. I probably own around 10 Tokai guitars right now and none of then have the model # in the neck PU cavity though. So, that is a long shot.

It sort of blows my mind that the 320 did not have MOP inlays but the custom did. Though I guess the original Gibson 59 did not have this so that is why they did it that way.


I asked the seller for more pics last night so I should have more soon. It is from a guitar shop where they only sell very high end guitars. Most are double the price of this Tokai 320.

As for the Jacaranda FB vs ebony. Hard to tell. Not even sure I could tell in person as I do not have a Jacaranda FB guitar to compare to.
 
The seller only has 10 photos in their listing; none internal. Why is that?

I have a 2000 LS-320 that has the 'amber cell' inlays.
The one you are asking about doesn't look like it has the amber cell inlays.
Was Tokai using the amber cell inlays for the LS-320 in 2002? I don't know.

I wouldn't waste a two hour drive going to look at the guitar unless the seller is forthcoming with much more info first.

As a side note: the the top on that example is pretty boring.
 
I am the lucky owner of two LS320s, one in Cherry Sundurts with a very nice flam with the typical Tokai COA and another one GT without BUT with a Tokai COA made for myself when ordered... Both are stellar...
 
@guitar hiro

It has the white inlays. For a second they almost looked MOP cause they were so white. Did they put Amber cell inlays in some and not others?

I saw this guiter a few months ago and thought the top was also boring. But they dropped the price by 20% the other day so I was thinking about it again.

He got back to me and said the guitar has no warranty card and will get me more pics later on today. Sort of thinking it may be a LS200.
 
aroomstudios said:
@guitar hiro

It has the white inlays. For a second they almost looked MOP cause they were so white. Did they put Amber cell inlays in some and not others?

I forgot about this. All the 320's I've seen had really intense shimmering inlays. The 200's less so. These look like the inlays you'd get on a 200.

Can everyone please lay off the accusations of being "boring"!

Paladin2019 said:
The top looks very, very similar to mine

Some of us actually like clean lines! :wink: :lol:
 
It looks like the cellophane wrap is still on the case handle. Then it sort of looks like the cellophane plastic is still on the control cavity. But they do not have the warranty card for it?


(Me) Do you have any other pics of the guitar? Like a pick of the warranty card with the model # and SN on it. A pic of the side of the frets showing the fret edge binding (NIBS). Or a shot of the Seth Lovers or any marking Tokai made in the PU control cavity if they did.

(Reply) Good morning. It does not have a warranty card. We can get some pictures in a bit.


https://www.guitarswest.net/listing/2002-tokai-love-rock-ls-320cs-in-cherry-burst-with-original-hardshell-case/12070201
 
aroomstudios said:
It looks like the cellophane wrap is still on the case handle. Then it sort of looks like the cellophane plastic is still on the control cavity. But they do not have the warranty card for it?

The warranty card on mine was written in Japanese. Maybe it was just thrown away because the owner couldn't read it.

My money says this will be settled by a mark in the pickup cavity. But would the shop be willing to take the pickups out to check?
 
I will see what the pics show when they send them to me. If it does not have FEB then I would say it is not a 320. If it has FEBs then I can go from there. Might be worth a trip down there at that point.

On a side note I do not see what the big deal with amber cell inlays vs white inlays is. They are both plastic. Mother of Pearl on the other hand is a big upgrade but they did not do that on the 320. My early 80's LS 80 guitars have amber cell inlays and my newer non premium p90 sized gold top from Tokai has white inlays. I would not say one is better than the other in regard to the inlay color of either.
 
Inlays for a 320 are IMO a distinguishing attribute & that's all

The later LS-380 also had Amber cell so, I would think it odd that a 320 doesn't

The big deal could be one of two things: there is an oddball 320 out there or someone could be paying more than they care to for a 200.

The fret board is IMO Ebony & the 2002 LS-320 should have FEB.

If you want a LS-200 from 2002 then it looks like you may have found one.
 
It is a LS200 for sure. No FEB no Seth Lovers and has 200 written in the PU cavity. The guy has it listed as a 320 and is charging a 320 price for it.

I think the guy clearly knows it is a 200. He went out of his way to not send the pics through Reverb.com and ask for my email address.

Here is all the links of the 200 being sold as a 320 if anyone wants to flag them. i already did on both ebay and reverb

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Tokai-Love-Rock-LS-320CS-in-Cherry-Burst-with-Original-Hardshell-Case/312117615013?hash=item48aba8d9a5:g:26YAAOSwAu5a3ra6:rk:1:pf:0

https://reverb.com/item/12070201-2002-tokai-love-rock-ls-320cs-in-cherry-burst-with-original-hardshell-case




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aroomstudios said:
It is a LS200 for sure. No FEB no Seth Lovers and has 200 written in the PU cavity. The guy has it listed as a 320 and is charging a 320 price for it.
g]

Such a shame. It's a beautiful, rare and excellent guitar in it's own right and in collector's grade condition. There should be no need to lie about it, especially when anyone who wants it is obviously going to ask questions. What did he say when you told him you knew the truth?

EDIT: the warranty card would have the model and serial number on it... No wonder he deosn't have a picture of it!
 
The implications of the first three sentences of my first post have been proven to be correct.

The seller clearly has some issues.


On a side note:
My 2000 LS-320 does not have the model number stamped in either pickup route.
I have seen some examples that do, and other examples that do not.

Is my 320 for sale? :lol:
 
@Paladin2019

He got mad at me for making him tear the guitar apart and take pictures of it. Then told me to stay off his site. Then said he was not trying to scam anyone. What I find hard to believe is that they did not know before. The store has a guitar listed for $70,000 USD. Then plenty of other guitars for sale for $6,000+ USD in price. So it blows my mind that the store (with 30 years of selling very expensive guitars) would buy a guitar without doing 10 minutes of research on it first. I bet they had the warranty card due to the mint nature of the guitar and original cellophane wrap still on it and just chucked it out to try and pass it off as a 320.

They finally just pulled the guitar from Ebay, Reverb and their own website. They have a negative feedback on Ebay for leaving out a very important detail and the buyer have to open a claim to get their money back. So, it sound like they have a history of doing this to other buyers.
 
I thought this Tokai looked familiar so, I did some digging around.

Looking through my Reverb messages I discovered I sent the seller(s), Gary and Mercedes Hernandez, a message about this Tokia back on May 12, 2018.
Here is an excerpt from my message to the seller.
"I noticed your listing states Mahogany for the body & neck, which is correct but it should be Honduran Mahogany, as that is the spec."

I wasn't interested in a purchase, since I already own the best LS-320 on the planet, so, I didn't pay much attention to the photos, and the lack of detailed photos.

Anywho, this thread is yet another good re-enforcing reason for potential buyers to always do your home work, and press sellers for good responses to your questions about a potential purchase. 8)
 
aroomstudios said:
@Paladin2019

He got mad at me for making him tear the guitar apart and take pictures of it.

Well, it clearly needed to be done for everyone's sake including his. Good to see the listing is removed (for now), it shows that someone somewhere is listening and a buyer has been protected. Job well done all around.
 
Well I got some really funny news regarding this case :lol: After I saw the cavity pics here yesterday I left the seller this message in ebay :

I wonder why you offer this guitar as a LS-320 if you should clearly know without fret edge binding and with 200 written in the cavity that it is a 200 only ? Further I wonder why you are asking the price for a 320 if you must know it is a 200 ??? Will inform ebay about that fraud...

Last night the answer came in and I am still laughing now :

Glatzkopfiger *******. Kummere Dich um Deine eigenen Anglegenheiten und bleib wo Du Dich auskennst. Kaufe 2 Dollar Autoteile fur Deinen scheib Porsche. Leckmich am Arsch, Glatze!
My German is a bit rough. Basically, what we say in America is go **** off.
Thanks, Gary

here's the translation for his not so bad german part :

Bald *******.Take care of your own business and stay where you are at home.Buy 2 dollar parts for your bl00dy Porsche.Kiss my arse baldy.

Gary 's pissed I guess ;-)
 
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