Tokai ES-100 in London

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What else would you like to see pics of, Mark? I'm not prepared to strip it down or remove anything, as it's being returned to the shop tomorrow or Tuesday, & I don't think it's reasonable to do that to somebody else's guitar. Especially as the shop have been so good about the mistake.

I did send Bob @ Tokai UK an e.mail, just to confirm that it is a 2002 ES100, & he replied:

Hi Mike most of the Japanse guitars have made in Japan on the back of the head stock but I am sure a few sneak through without it The ES100 that you have looks fine and like you say was made in 2002 thanks for the support

Best Regards
Bob Murdoch
Tokai guitars UK


Bob has given me his permission to pass his e.mail to the shop, so at least I can give them confirmation of what it actually is.
 
The serial number is on the sticker, which you can see on the link I posted on the previous page. No fret edge binding - not that I can any point in this detail, though I know it matters to some people. I see you have an early ES100 listed on your site, & it has fret edge binding. Do you know when Tokai stopped doing this?
 
villager said:
ah sorry m8 didnt see the link before...


fret binding on all 80 + models until 1982 ..

Until 1982? They only started the ES models in 1981, didn't they?

:eek:
 
yes, for the es models fret binding on the 100 and 150 at least until 84 to my knowledge,

for the LP's its different tho, LS-80's stopped getting fret binding somewhere between 1982 and 1984 i think..
 
Can someone help me with the "correct" way to set the tailpiece on an ES? On the ES130, it's like this:

IMG_0337.jpg


On the ES100, like this:

IMG_0331.jpg


What difference does this make?
 
I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.
 
marcusnieman said:
I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.

Exactly what my response would have been, but you got there first Marcus :wink: Togps Faber kit allows you to clamp the bridge in place, improving sustain and stopping it falling off and denting your lovely flame top, without screwing it all the way down.
 
JohnA said:
marcusnieman said:
I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.

Exactly what my response would have been, but you got there first Marcus :wink: Togps Faber kit allows you to clamp the bridge in place, improving sustain and stopping it falling off and denting your lovely flame top, without screwing it all the way down.

+1 on the Faber Kits
 
stratman323 said:
Fret edges on the ES100, in case you still want to see them, Mark.

What are you refering, Mike: fretboard binding or fret edge binding?
Since I guess Villager is meaning fret edge binding = binding over frets

+1 on the Faber Kits
Thanks John and Marcus
 
marcusnieman said:
I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

.

Correct.

It's the way Gibson have set them up from day one, the princible reason is twofold, to stop string breakage on the E and B and avoid putting extra stress on the ABR-1.
 
marcusnieman said:
I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.

So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.
 
togps said:
stratman323 said:
Fret edges on the ES100, in case you still want to see them, Mark.

What are you refering, Mike: fretboard binding or fret edge binding?
Since I guess Villager is meaning fret edge binding = binding over frets

Mark asked for a pic of the fret ends, but I think he just wanted to know if it has fret edge binding. Which it doesn't.

8)
 
stratman323 said:
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.

The ES100 is <Vicky mode > well wrong :wink:

Too much pressure on the ABR and the bottom E will end up snapping at the point it touchs the back of the bridge.

You always raise the stop bar ( unless you wrap it over ) so the strings clear the back of the ABR by around 05-1mm ( Rizla paper )



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/11024-another-question-bout-stopbar-height.html

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7339



Plus Gibson should have a PDF file on setting up the Stopbar and ABR1



3g.jpg
 
stratman323 said:
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.

In principal, yes - assuming that your string height is the same on both guitars. Notice the extreme angle of the stings from the saddle on the ES100 when compared to the ES130. You need to have some tension against the saddle so the the strings don't slip off when picking/strumming hard or doing big bends....I've found that with the stings just clearing the bridge frame is perfect.

All you need to do is raise the tailpiece on both or either sides until the strings just clear and re-tune. That's it - it's an easy adjustment and it doesn't affect the intonation at all.
 
OK, thanks guys. Well the 100 is going back tomorrow, so I'll leave them to sort that out - that's the way their tech set it up!
 
stratman323 said:
that's the way their tech set it up!

Rather concerning.

That would be one of the first things any tech would learn on day one of a job, set up wrong it can cause some expensive damage ( bending and pulling out the posts for example ).
 
Glad to see you got it sorted with the shop Mike, a similar thing happend to me a few years ago at a guitar show in Manchester, I bought what I thought was an 80s love rock model, vintage correct headstock shape, tulip truss rod cover, black back plates, felt and played 'vintage' if you know what I mean, then I decided to adjust the truss rod and found it had two extra holes, upon closer examination it turned out to be a korean model made to look like an oldie, but unlike you I didn't get a refund.

As for the tailpeice question, I've always just bolted it down on my es100, I prefer the extra 'fight' in the feel and the sustain, so far I've never had any problems but I do understand the string clearance issues, I think I've just been lucky as I've never had a string break over the bridge but I can see how it could happen, one thing I'm not clear on though is how increasing the break angle of the string coming off the bridge saddles can increase the string pull pressure on the tailpeice posts thus causing damage ? is that the same for the headstock pitch too ? higher end love rocks (ls 80 + above) have an increased headstock pich angle over the ls 60 so does this mean the chances of a headstock break or cracked nut are increased due to the higher pressure of string pull on the higher end models ?
 

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