1959 Les paul

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exactly my point, I don't believe a new tokai (especially the ones above model 125, even though the rest are also very good) isn't better than an old one (right now in the present), and further more, I don't see why in the future it won't be as good or even better than an old one.
 
Why new guitars will not sound the same in 30 years as 30 year old guitars sound now....

1. because the new wood used now is farmed mahogony, harvested young, not old growth mahogony that was used in the 50's -late 80's

2. because the wood is now kiln dried to remove excess moisture, and this is done quickly, it used to be air dried for a few years...


of course if you can get a luthier to build you a new guitar out of old wood...such as the mahogony used in old buildings for church pews countertops in old banks etc ..then there is no difference...but wood used for guitars by large manufacturers now is NOT the same as wood used 30 years ago...
 
yeah but I mean the difference between old and new tokais when it comes to wood is not as big as the difference between a 50's guitar... so that is a little out of context, as far as tokais go... :wink:

I would bet with you a new tokai will sound as good as any old tokai sounds right now in 30 years, but thenit would take a long time for you to pay that bet wouldn't it? :wink:
 
I believe it is yet to be proven that reborns and so on used honduran mahogany... and I also believe most of that is hype. But then again, that's just me.
 
I didnt say they did....i said the farming meathod and drying method for old mahogony whether honduran or not was different to modern wood growing and prep....


but sure as hell some had braz boards....

TokaiLPRebornLS-1201980CHSB019.jpg
 
mahogony is mahogony...same wood ...but the way its commercially grown now, and harvested early,...(small growth rings), and the way it is dried now, is not the same as the way the old wood was harvested and dried after it had been allowed to reach its maturity as a tree...

this is obviously not from from tokai..its common knowledge in the wood buying and guitar building industries...

are you suggesting that tokai uses old growth, fully mature, air dried mahogony for its new guitars??? lol...no commercial guitar builders use old growth mahogony....its almost impossible to get in the required quantities for that purpose...you can still buy it in small quantities ...but its very expensive compared with newer farmed mahogony...
 
no, I'm not sugesting that, at least I don't recall saying that...

I think however your old wood theory is based on assumptions, rather than realiable info.

But I'll allow to have the final word on this topic because I'm not here to try to convince anyone, of my opinion, in 30 years, we'll know. Even because new tokais sound as great as old ones already.
 
think what you like m8 ...do some reading about it...ask some luthiers..look at the growth rings on new and old tokai's...

how many old tokais have you got exactly? and how many new ones?

or more to the point ..how long have you spent playing and comparing, new and old tokais head to head?
 
now we pass to question fase...

as of now I own one tokai, and intend to one more only... more than 3 guitars is too much maintenance, besides also like fender type guitars. So only one tokai for me and two very soon.Right now it its a new one. The next will be too...Luckly I have been able to compare both new and old 80-82 tokais. We had a dealer in portugal who had them in the early eighties, so some people still own them.

Ive been playing them for quite some time now... Im not in the business of comparing them, I usually prefer to play them :wink:

I tend to know how they sound, I also tend to know when rumors about this or that being better are spread, and when I get a chance to try those things out I do... My opinion like I told you, is there is nothing making an old tokai better than a new one, not even the farm grown wood tale...sorry m8

but I mean, never let the truth get in a way of a good story, if you like them better, and sell them better, more power to you.

Oh and by the way Ive met some nice people who are also in the guitar business, who are also relatively knowledgable of tokais, they sure seem to think the new ones are just as good, is that a valid point? Well I think it is as good as any.

cheers
 
as i said ...

you have nothing to contribute....

you have no extensive knowledge ...

someone i know ...i used to play some .. in the 80's....etc etc...

fact..you have one new tokai...not too much to compare there is there...

new tokais are good guitars ..especially the 320 and the new 380...but ...in my opinion ...they do not sound the same as the older tokais...

better /worse....its an individuals opinion...my opinion is old ones sound better to me...

i tend to stick to facts ...unlike you..
 
What I think is youre not confortable with other peoples opinions...

Ive tried several of these "lovely old grown wood guitars" and the truth is they rate the same as new tokais (theyre great guitars yes, but just as easily so is a new tokai, especially anything above a ls-135).

Ive seen your facts, and understand your contribute, I also understand why it is so appealing to you to feed these old tales.

So if you have your opinion formed on your own "facts" you better start respecting other people opinions and their own facts. Youve tested old against new, Ive tested old against new, lots of people here have,some prefer old, some prefer new.

Deal with it, dont impose it on other people, with tales of the glory days.

Also you should know I visit the forum because I like tokai guitars and to discuss about them, I do it for pleasure, so my contribute and opinion is based on my own experience with these guitars, not biased opinions.
 
Hi All, Quite the lively discussion going on. Rossi... I had a 67 Sunburst Tele when I was 11, and honestly I get more out of my Peavey Preditor (late 80's model) than I can remember getting out of the Tele.
And like you, I paid $125.00 American, sold it to my uncle for around $100. about 2 yrs later like I had my head in my a-- or something, :cry: but anyway. I'm in agreement with the way the woods are farmed commercially now due to the demand, as virtually all cut wood is kiln dried now for faster production purposes. Old v. New? It really matters on the individual and the music tone they desire right?
And as I always say my fellow gitarpickers...

KEEP ON ROCKIN ON 8)
 
I remember speaking to Clive Brown some years ago about woods. He does amazingly authentic re-fin's and has worked on and owns many vintage guitars including several uh, 'Burst's'(I'm going off that term). We talked mainly about LP Juniors because I had a few at the time and expressed the desire to get a Standard that would play and feel something like my Juniors. He told me to get a luthier to build something close or to try and find an early Tokai Les Paul. He said that ".....all that early Japanese stuff is pretty **** good, JV series Squire, Tokai, Fernandes.....the Japanese makers got hold of a supply of very good wood back in the late '70's". He did'nt mention Honduras mahogany etc. but he said it was good wood, properly dried and cured and that it makes a difference.

I feel a lot of the newer guitars are let down by the wood used, especially some fingerboards. I've seen some mid price PRS's recently with fretboards resembling Balsa wood.
 
Bruno, from your posts i am afraid i cannot respect your opinion, as I do not believe your posts recently merit any respect whatsoever...in fact far from it... the way you have disrespected my posts and opinions, in fact basically insinuating that i am posting 'tales' to sell guitars is both ignorant and insulting...so if you want some respect, why dont you post a worthwhile contribution sometime, and maybe you will earn mine...


FACT.... new wood is not the same, and due to the process by which it is farmed and dried, will never be the same as the wood used in the early to mid eighties...
to some people who have had the experience of extensivley playing both, it may well sound as good as old wood ...not to me..but then tone is a subjective thing..that is not my point...better/worse is a waste of time...my point is state above..
 
Worry not I make my contribute all the time, if you've never noticed, it's because you were not interested...

I won't change a word about what I said, as far as I'm concerned your opinion is biased, and it is easy for everyone to understand why. New tokais are as easily good as the old ones. I know that for a fact.

So it's pointless to keep going at this...

have a nice day
 
I am sure ive read somewhere that Tokai Bought the forest that the 59 wood came from??? and also that they got hold of the the original 59 blueprints???.If people like new guitars thats up to them and i take nothing from them also if people like the MOJO and the old guitars (like me) then thats my view and i hope people respect me for that like i do to others.Also we are all individuals which is a good thing.But New guitars if a lot of people are paying over double the price for a Gibson Historic + Fenders reissue WHY. Myself i wood :lol: rather pay for a realy good MIJ late 70s early 80s thats the real deal than a new one.A new Fender does not sound anything like one from the 60s 70s im also sure thats why people pay the extra for an old one not for the name its just that they made guitars that play and sound better better then with no cutbacks.

How about this one :lol:

Does it not also depend on the amp and what fx you use?????
and also i think that you can tell from the woods you used 30years ago the BIG BIG difference in accoustic guitars NOW were talking.

10th GEAR i bet a lot of guitarist have done the same as us :wink:
 
Do you know, I really thought I'd entered the LPF, or "Snobs R Us", as I like to call it, for a minute. All this "I know more than you" stuff is boring. Don't turn the Tokai forum into an "Old/New (delete as appropriate) Tokais are better than ........" site, please. Opinions are like arseholes ................ everybody has one. Let's just enjoy the quality stuff we have, old or new :wink:

Old wood, new wood, it's all good wood. How do we know that the closer grained stuff of today isn't going to sound better than the stuff from 30 - 50 years ago in a few decades ? Answer: We don't, but hopefully we'll live to find out :D
 
Rossi said:
A new Fender does not sound anything like one from the 60s 70s im also sure thats why people pay the extra for an old one not for the name its just that they made guitars that play and sound better better then with no cutbacks.

I wouldn't say that, Rossi. Present production Fender is about the best it's ever been, in my opinion and that of many others. QC is superb and the range is amazing. Something for everyone. Most people sneer at the '70s CBS Fenders, especially Stratocasters, because they had poor quality control back then, but you do find the good ones that break the rules. The modern Fenders are much more consistant, and beat the hell out of Gibson for the finished article at much less money 8)

(An opinion, nothing more, nothing less, don't shoot me, please :lol: )
 

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