Please help me !

Tokai guitar discussion

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Paladin2019
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Paladin2019 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:39 pm

Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:11 pm
So because the LesPaul forum says it's legit...it must be legit?
No, it's legit because Tokai made those guitars for a number of years around the turn of the millennium for the US market, as stated above.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020609005 ... itars.html

As you can see on this Wayback Machine snapshot of Tokai's own website from 2002, this is an NLC70S. 'N' for North America.
Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:11 pm
I stand by my statement....it's not a tokai...100%.
Welcome back? :lol:

mdvineng
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Re: Please help me !

Post by mdvineng » Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:17 am

Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:11 pm
So because the LesPaul forum says it's legit...it must be legit?
I stand by my statement....it's not a tokai...100%.
It was for further opinions and not supporting the guitar in anyway, try not to jump to assumptions.
Tokai VSB80 OF, Michael Kelly Patriot custom, Epiphone Elite SG & EB3. 8)

Ozeguitarguy
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Ozeguitarguy » Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:44 am

These look like they were Korean built...Agile maybe?
They've got a similar headstock and stumpy lower bout.
This wasn't the Canadian Tokai site from the 80's was it :p
1985 LS80...1974 Diplomat SG...1980 Maya MSG Flying Vee

Paladin2019
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Paladin2019 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:15 am

Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:44 am
These look like they were Korean built...Agile maybe?
They've got a similar headstock and stumpy lower bout.
This wasn't the Canadian Tokai site from the 80's was it :p
Not Agile. Tokai Japan.

Website is the official English language Tokai Japan website.

We've answered the OP's question. Stop trying to muddy the waters.

You are claiming to be some sort of authority, here to clean up the mess we've apparently made of this forum in your absence and yet here you are arrogantly pushing a point which is demonstrably wrong. Your opinion is just that - an opinion - and you should grow up and accept that other people have equally valid ones (and can back them up).

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Re: Please help me !

Post by HAMAMATSU » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:16 pm

8) take it easy oze, i emailed tokai about this so hopefully they sure answer soon!
QUALITY THAN QUANTITY!

Custom Goldtop
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Custom Goldtop » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:18 am

Paladin2019 wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:39 pm
Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:11 pm
So because the LesPaul forum says it's legit...it must be legit?
No, it's legit because Tokai made those guitars for a number of years around the turn of the millennium for the US market, as stated above.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020609005 ... itars.html

As you can see on this Wayback Machine snapshot of Tokai's own website from 2002, this is an NLC70S. 'N' for North America.
Ozeguitarguy wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:11 pm
I stand by my statement....it's not a tokai...100%.
Welcome back? :lol:

That is not an official Tokai website, if you check, It is from the then Canadian distributor responsible for the fake Tokai's made in Korea, I side with Oze here, why would Tokai make that body shape when the only thing they had to worry about was the headstock ? I emailed Mr Adachi {Tokai President} directly about 10 years ago and he confirmed that the Canadian distributor had these guitars made of his own back, with NO AGREEMENT from Tokai, and without Tokai's knowledge. Check your own link, it says "This page © Copyright 2001,2002 Active Music Products All rights reserved."

https://web.archive.org/web/20030801111 ... about.html

Paladin2019
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Paladin2019 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:13 am

*sigh*

Ok, wrong website. Here's the correct one (even though the info at the time was correct and the fakes were about 5 years away from being commissioned)

Follow the links to "new love rocks"...

https://web.archive.org/web/20030720053 ... itars.com/


Even without the website evidence it's clearly a MIJ guitar. Black back plates, two screw TRC, thin bridge posts with no slots, stamped serial number.

If the pickups were removed OP would see the characteristic routing pattern and hopefully some model info pencilled in. In the cavity will be full sized Made in Japan pots with green caps. OP would also see that the bridge posts are drilled directly into the body. He's not contributing to this thread any more but I hope he sees this and is able to reassure himself that he's been given the correct information and that his guitar is actually Japanese.

There were Canadian fakes, this is NOT one of them. I appreciate Oze's situation is embarrassing, having made a big entrance and then messing up his first identification, but that's his own fault and he needs to put his ego aside for the benefit of the OP and anyone else who reads this thread later on.

Custom Goldtop
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Custom Goldtop » Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:32 am

"*sigh*

Whats with the theatrics ? Starting with "sigh" and finishing with "lol" doesn't make for a convincing argument..
That link, whilst it does show an altered body, doesn't show the ugly headstock, and that serial number looks dodgy as well, looks nothing like my 2001 and 2002 Tokai's serial numbers. They seem to have the correct headstock logo , truss rod cover and other things like the bridge posts , but excuse me for doubting anything coming out of Canada back then, there were a number of different iterations of Tokai's commissioned by the Canadian importer, {in a different Korean factory than Tokai used}, Somewhere on another hard drive I have hundreds of pictures of Fake Tokai's, I'll have to go look for them, my old computer died years ago but I'm sure I saved them somewhere... I'd love to know how you know exactly when the Canadian Importer started commissioning his own "Tokai's", I researched this exact topic for a long time back then, there was no definitive date or year that I remember..

Paladin2019
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Paladin2019 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:02 am

There's a wealth of info on the Canadian fakes on this very forum. Use the search term "fakai".

IIRC they were made for a place called Mike's Music in or around 2005. Made in Korea but in a different factory without Tokai knowing. The semi hollows had an altered Tokai logo and the LP copies had a distinctive "make in korea" with a vertical serial number.

EDIT: Rather than resorting to the wayback machine, it seems a simple google search for 'tokai NLS' brings up a wealth of info on those altered shape guitars... my bad.

marcusnieman
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Re: Please help me !

Post by marcusnieman » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:56 am

Not to digress but I had a couple of the Mike's Music guitars..... do you guys remember that he came out with a Limited Edition series of three guitars (Goldtop, Cherry Burst and Violin Burst) back in 2001? Truss rod cover said MM2001 on it. I had the goldtop and violin burst and I have to say, they were really quite good. Here's a past Reverb link with the goldtop: https://reverb.com/item/812812-tokai-lo ... ed-edition

brokentoes
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Re: Please help me !

Post by brokentoes » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:46 pm

This is the most action i've seen on this forum in a long time. Good to see so many Canadians with hands on knowledge chiming in.

Custom Goldtop
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Custom Goldtop » Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:04 pm

Paladin2019 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:02 am
There's a wealth of info on the Canadian fakes on this very forum. Use the search term "fakai".

IIRC they were made for a place called Mike's Music in or around 2005. Made in Korea but in a different factory without Tokai knowing. The semi hollows had an altered Tokai logo and the LP copies had a distinctive "make in korea" with a vertical serial number.

EDIT: Rather than resorting to the wayback machine, it seems a simple google search for 'tokai NLS' brings up a wealth of info on those altered shape guitars... my bad.
Your first link gives you the answer, It was "ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD", that commissioned the fake Tokai's. Most of the info on this site referring to "fakai's" was put here by me in the first place, with help from a couple of Canadian members, one Japanese friend, Info supplied from the Euro importer and a friend of his, and direct contact with Mr Adachi the Tokai President , I lost his emails when my computer died years ago. Reading some of my previous posts here I've seen at least one 2003 fake and seeings though they were made without any knowledge or permission from Tokai, they could easily go back earlier than that. If my memory serves me correctly, Mikes music didn't know it was selling fakes because it was just getting stock from the distributor... As you've pointed out, there's a ton of information on the forum, not to sure I wish to go back through all of it, It took quite a while to get all the information in the first place, I wanted to be extremely sure it was correct, hence going to the sources and not spreading heresay.......

Paladin2019
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Paladin2019 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:34 am

Custom Goldtop wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:04 pm

Your first link gives you the answer, It was "ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD", that commissioned the fake Tokai's.
Then I admitted my mistake and posted the correct one. I will do so again. Click the link to "New love rocks".

https://web.archive.org/web/20030720053 ... itars.com/

As to the rest, you're on a brand new account and you don't have those emails any more so I have no idea if you are who you say you are, just like Oze.

Look, I admit I've taken this one a bit personally but here are my two problems. One, the subject at hand - a lot of misinformation and doubt created for no good reason. The guitar is a Japanese NLC70S, clear as day. The only reason anyone had to doubt that is Oze, who has come in here, talked s*** about the members here, styled himself and some sort of retuning rockstar and fallen flat on his face, but after that entrance can't admit it so got his friend in to create more confusion. He's caused the very problem he waltzed in to solve and it would be nice if we could all just learn something and move on, everyone feeling a little wiser.

Custom Goldtop
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Custom Goldtop » Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:17 pm

Paladin2019 wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:34 am
Custom Goldtop wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:04 pm

Your first link gives you the answer, It was "ACTIVE MUSICAL PRODUCTS LTD", that commissioned the fake Tokai's.
Then I admitted my mistake and posted the correct one. I will do so again. Click the link to "New love rocks".

https://web.archive.org/web/20030720053 ... itars.com/

As to the rest, you're on a brand new account and you don't have those emails any more so I have no idea if you are who you say you are, just like Oze.

Look, I admit I've taken this one a bit personally but here are my two problems. One, the subject at hand - a lot of misinformation and doubt created for no good reason. The guitar is a Japanese NLC70S, clear as day. The only reason anyone had to doubt that is Oze, who has come in here, talked s*** about the members here, styled himself and some sort of retuning rockstar and fallen flat on his face, but after that entrance can't admit it so got his friend in to create more confusion. He's caused the very problem he waltzed in to solve and it would be nice if we could all just learn something and move on, everyone feeling a little wiser.
Jesus mate, you need to lay off the conspiracy theories, I actually do know Oze, but haven't spoken to him in years, I don't care what you choose to believe. As you've said, they are your problems, not mine. I was talking about Mikes music, Not Active, it was Active that commissioned the builds, Not built to order for Mikes, or that Mikes thought the guitars were made by Tokai, thats how I was led to understand the problem, I don't have the emails any more because it WAS A LONG TIME AGO, I have at least 2 or 3 computers since then and no longer have the email account that was used, I saved pics but that about it,{i'd have to dige deep to find them as again, I haven't even thought about this for years}, most of the rest I posted here, again years ago.. I am a straight shooter , you may be easily influenced, or hang with people that are, anyone that knows me, and there are members here that do really well, know this, I don't hold anyone's hand, Oze may have done what he did, but thats not why I decided to reply here, He's a big boy, he can handle his own problems. As i've stated, I did a hell of a lot of investigation into these fakes, had literally 100's of pictures, and contributed to another site heavily regarding this topic/problem, I spoke to as many people involved as I could, first hand, No heresay. You can go on half cocked about Oze all you like, It has NOTHING to do with anything I've stated, or me at all. You've still not provided a link showing the headstock of the guitar here in question, It may well be a Japanese model, I'd rather wait till Tokai responds than take your word, its as simple as that... If you knew as much as you think you do, you'd know who I am and my old sign in, I didn't come back to be a long time contributor, I was asked to add to the conversation by another member, NOT OZE, Just to add some info here. If the guitar turns out to be authentic then great, I really couldn't give a damn and I'll be happy for the buyer...

Molotovkyle
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Re: Please help me !

Post by Molotovkyle » Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:42 pm

Well, all of this is a huge bummer.

Despite the guitar playing good. It doesn't sit right with me that I got hosed.

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