Strange Tokai headstock

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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knight_yyz
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Strange Tokai headstock

Post by knight_yyz » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:43 am

Hi Guys, newbie to the forum.
This photo is from a Silver Star ss48 according to the neck sticker. What i don't understand is why I can't find this style. It looks like the springy sound logo exactly, except it says silver star. Same size writing, no serial under Tokai but it has the "this is the old good replica..." etc or something similar. It also has the contour body sticker, which I have not seen on any silver star? Any ideas guys?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VudMee ... sp=sharing[/img]

J.E.M.
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Post by J.E.M. » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:56 am

I saw the rest of your pics on GC and it looks 100% legit and there was one of these around here not too long ago, it's best if you post the rest of your pics here and I'm sure others will answer your question about exactly which model.

knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:03 am

I know what model it is. I just want to know what year it is. There is no serial under Tokai, no serial on neckplate, nothing on the fretboard. And according to the internet, this logo does not exist. The only writing in the guitar is this weird stamp which may be the date.... 4=7B8 or 4=788

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qzX1- ... E4j9C1Cgjs



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n_6Aw ... Q_q5DsuAL2

J.E.M.
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Post by J.E.M. » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:34 pm

Well it's early 80's for sure and the BB is for black, the numbers are something you'd have to read about..

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:38 am

Hi

The bottom flyer reads " The Quality Musical Instruments of the World".
This was the flyer for Goldstar Sound.
This appears to be a frankenstrat as all the features are mixed from different Models of SilverStar, even the stamp placement is different.
The logo is from 1982 SS-60 (1966 replica) however the coloured headstock is not associated with SilverStars.
The body is Hamamatsu SilverStar, possibly SS-38, due to the 'Z' in the stamp, April build but which Year is anyones guess between 1982 and 1983.
Pickups appear to be SilverStar ( flat poles as opposed to staggered) but without pics it is hard to know if they are 'S' or 'H' or ceramic bar.
At this point I would think it was original Factory built R&D prototype as all the features are genuine. . . AT THIS POINT

regards
Peter
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:52 am

The neck stamp clearly says ss48. The pickups are the SS Hots as denoted by the black bobbins and he blue/black leads. The fingerboard is rosewood NOT baked maple

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ayrEN ... IiwZ22ooMQ

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JX9uV ... 3mTsUpMG-i_


It seems like this is a transition guitar. They stopped making Springy Sound models and started making the Silver Stars around the same time. So it's almost like I got a Goldstar sound with a Silver Star label, or Silver Star guitar with a Goldstar Label.

If I am not mistaken, the springy sounds and Goldstars did have the option for colored headstock. So I am wondering it I have a "leftover" Springy Sound /Goldstar neck on a Silver Star body or maybe the body is a Springy/Goldstar too?

knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:46 am

i just found this pic online. A Silver Star with a Springy Logo on top? If you look closely you can see the large font " STAR" under "sound".

Looks like they were interchanging parts between models back then?

http://www.strat-talk.com/proxy.php?ima ... 9a9f0dbf1c

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:31 pm

Hi,

I disagree about the pickups being SS-Hot [part# S-023] as they have grey bobbins and an 'H' stamp by 1982.
These pups seem to be the style used in Custom and Super Editions or like the 'L.White' series pups used in the SD series guitars.
The neck stamp clearly says '48' - whilst it appears to be an SS, it MAY have another designation. Working backwards, we know that Tokai added 5,000 yen extra for Painted headstock, so plain would make it a '43'.
Do you have photos of the body routing? Even a full length shot would be good and the back of the headstock with the machine heads.

Where is the serial number?
As far as I'm aware, Tokai did not use Ser# on 3 bolt plates - they went under the logo. SS-60 models used a 4 bolt plate with an ST ser#.
i look forward to your reply
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knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:54 pm

I'm not going to take it apart again to see the cavities. I already posted the marked cavity. There is no serial number anywhere on the guitar. Not in any cavity, not on the headstock, not on the fretboard, not in the tremolo cavity not on the neck plate. It is non existent. It has the typical trap tuners that resemble the fender F tuners normally found on a ss48 Silver Star. How much does a rosewood board add to the price? I read these should all be baked maple on maple.

Oh and I stand corrected on the pups. Should be SS super? the ss hots were ceramic,



https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zujz- ... 5ln9BtEq_D

brokentoes
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Post by brokentoes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:17 pm

It's an interesting guitar. I'm not sure it's in the $900 range of interesting but that's me. Good luck with your sale.

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:22 pm

OK, thanks for the link with the extra photos.

Firstly SS-48 did not come with the CBS-style tuners, they had enclosed tuners and SS-Super pickups.
This is an SS-38 base with 10,000 yen worth of extras to reach 48,000 yen retail. Probably the all-black neck and headstock account for it.
Body stamp cavity shows it is a Hamamatsu made guitar however I did find the pickups in a Nagano SS-38 SilverStar. They have black course bobbins with Blue/Black wiring. Also the brass grounding plate is missing so it may be the pickups have been changed however the original Green Mylar capacitor is still there so that would place it before 1984.
All in all, I would suggest this is a Custom Order SilverStar, as none of it's features ever appeared together on a Production Model...that I can find or have seen before.
Looks like a good score for you.

regards
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:31 pm

According to the catalog the black pickguard makes it an SS48 with SS super pups. An SS38 would have the SS hot pickups. What about the rosewood? That has to be an upgrade as well?

You're saying that if in 1980 I was in Japan and asked for an SS36 with upgrades that they would put a 48 sticker on the guitar instead of the original 36?

I'm starting to wonder if the black headstock required a different decal. Would the normal decal be visible on a black headstock? I have searched and searched and I cannot find a SS with a painted headstock except for mine.

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:07 pm

Hey,
Which catalog is that you are referring to? With 2 exceptions, all other SS-SilverStars have black scratchplates.
Considering the regular Tokai SS logo was black with gold outline, it makes more sense to put the gold one on it otherwise it wouldn't be seen at all.

A rosewood fingerboard makes no difference in the price as they were laminated on pre-made maple necks anyway - hence the skunk stripe.

Tokai first used this particular SS logo in MY1982 ( late 81 onwards) so it would not have helped to be there in 1980.
Tuners are definately from an SS-38. Pickups appear to be from a Nagano model - not SS_Super. SS-Super have grey bottoms with 'S' stamp.
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

knight_yyz
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Post by knight_yyz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:32 pm

I'm tired of uploading everything to google. another forum has a photo of a page that shows ss38- ss50 all use the same "Fender Style" tuners, shows the body material and available colors as well. [/img]

Peter Mac
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Post by Peter Mac » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:37 pm

That's incorrect. SS-38/40 had the CBS style tuners whilst SS-48/50 have sealed enclosed tuners - similar to SS-80.
The tuners have a difference of 2500 yen and pickups from 'H' to 'S" had a difference of 1500 yen. The other difference was the 3 piece body to a 2 piece body adding to the overall extra 10,000 yen.
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

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