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javelin70

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I have a question regarding an SG I'm interested in. It has the open book headstock and a bell trussrod cover. It looks like a japanese Tokai to me but there is no serial number, should I be worried about that? I don't have any pictures at the moment but if I buy it I'll post some.

/Michael
 
Paladin2019 said:
No serial number is a big red flag. We need pictures or a much more thorough description.

I agree, it has the same shape of the trussrod cover as my -84 Love Rock. It does not have exactly the same shape as a Gibson. The tuners are Kluson type double ring ones, no Deluxe text. The Tokai logo looks like it should. Body and neck looks like mahogany and the build quality is supposed to be really good according to the seller. Pickups seems to be black Seymour Duncan 59's. The hw also looks ok to me, not cheap korean or chinese parts.

It is confusing, I have an AST-50 Goldstar Sound strat from 2001 and it doesn't have anything identifying it as japanese even though it is.

I'm pretty sure this is the guitar in question, these are not the sellers pictures. I found them while I was searching for information.

https://www.use.com/MwvbF
 
Sometimes with the angles and the age the serials don't show up in photo's well or at all . Could you ask the seller for it or has he said that there is none ??
 
brokentoes said:
Sometimes with the angles and the age the serials don't show up in photo's well or at all . Could you ask the seller for it or has he said that there is none ??

The seller says it has no serial. To me it looks ok otherwise except for the double ring tuners. We'll se what it looks like when I meet the seller tomorrow.
 
Those pics look MIJ to me too.

But there's something slightly 'off' about the shape of the headstock. It might be the photos or my imagination but the shape just doesn't look quite right.
 
Paladin2019 said:
Those pics look MIJ to me too.

But there's something slightly 'off' about the shape of the headstock. It might be the photos or my imagination but the shape just doesn't look quite right.

I can agree on that but on the sellers pictures the shape looks ok to me. Could it be a custom order guitar? I know Tokai makes them but I guess they normally have serial numbers?

Looking more closely at the headstock it looks like the tuners are too far apart compared to other Tokai SG's? On the other hand, if I look at a Gibson SG 61 reissue the tuners are mounted that far apart - confusing!

SG61FWCCH1-Headstock-Back.jpg
 
After searching the forum I found a thread where japanese Love Rocks without a serial were discussed. They seem to be from the mid nineties up to ~2001. Could it be possible that this SG is from that period? This type of trussrod cover seem to have been used until 1999.

I'm really confused about this guitar, if it feels good I might buy it even if it might be a fake.
 
I did buy the guitar even though I'm not sure about what it is. It's all mahogany, has a one piece neck with glued on wings on the headstock as it should be. Pickups are SD 59's and the pots are CTS. Sounds good and feels good except for one rough fret that needs dressing.

In certain light conditions it's possible to see the outline of a faint Gibson style G under the T in Tokai. Could it possible be a Tokai made Greco that for some reason was rebranded? The headstock and the space between the tuners looks exactly like a Greco. The headstock does not appear to have been refinished.

Tokai_SG_60_Custom_Shop_Japan_1983_99b5617e70c371ad9d2a_1.jpg


Copy/paste this link to see the Greco headstock:

https://can01.anibis.ch/Electrique-RARE!-GRECO-SG-TYPE-61-REISSUE-1985--JAPON-IMPORT/?2048x1536/3/70/anibis/691/659/025/3pu5x6LAZUW8Xo27H4Ldyw_1.jpg
 
brokentoes said:
Take out the neck pup and have a look in there. Tokai has it's own routing fingerprint.

Will do, I know what the love rocks look like. I guess it will look a bit different on the SG with the neck going into the pickup cavity? Should I expect the square routing with rounded corners for the pickup screws?
 
I actually don't have a Tokai SG but i would imagine it would be the same as a love rock since it's a humbucker route.
 
I admit I was a bit worried but there were so many things that felt right about the guitar. I'm not worried anymore 🙂 , it's definitely a Tokai, the pickup routing looks exactly as it should! Unfortunatly it doesn't seem possible to upload pictures on the forum. I'll see what I can do about it.
 
brokentoes said:
A happy ending !

Congrats

Thanks! I still don't know what modell it is, but if it was supposed to be a Greco I guess it was made late 80's/early 90's. I'll look for the models that were available back then but my guess would be SG-60.

I've already replaced the tuners with a set of Gotoh's with a single ring. The electronics are CTS pots, Switchcraft jack and SD '59 pickups. Don't know about the switch but it's a good one, probably Switchcraft. The bridge is Gotoh but the stop tailpiece is unmarked but seems to be aluminum. I'll post some pics later of the guitar.

edit: Picture of pickup cavity routing:

tokai_sg_1.jpg
 
I took a couple of pictures of the headstock, this is what you normally see:

tokai_sg_2.jpg


This one I took close to the headstock using the flash. You can actually see the Greco logo under the Tokai logo:

tokai_sg_3.jpg


After reading a lot about Greco I found out that Tokai had been manufacturing a number of guitars for them and they seem to have been without serial numbers. This must have been a finished guitar that was left when the deal with Greco ended I guess. It was then made into a Tokai, that's why the placement of the tuners is not consistent with a Tokai SG but looks exactly as on a Greco and also a Gibson 61 SG.
 
A couple of pictures of the guitar. It's very resonant and I really like the SD '59 pickups. I have so far replaced the tuners, strap buttons and volume/tone knobs with Gotoh's.

tokai_sg_4.jpg


tokai_sg_5.jpg
 
Hello Michael!
It is really nice reading you again.

According to the TRC cover it seems to be 90s TSG. I own a 1996 LS320CS with no serial number but with all appointments of the LS320 of that time (it has its red COA). I contacted Furuhashi-san and he was so kind to confirm me being a real LS320 he remembered as far as he was involved into the project in 1995. It happened to be for sale at his guitarshop Timelag

Hope it helps!
 
luis said:
Hello Michael!
It is really nice reading you again.

According to the TRC cover it seems to be a 90s TSG. It could be a special model or prototype but not sure. I own a 1996 LS320CS with no serial number but all appointmnets as a LS320 of thet time (it has its red COA). I contacted Furuhashi-san and he was so kind to confirm me being a real LS320 he remembered as far as he was involved into the project in 1995. It happened to be for sale at his guitarshop Timelag

Hope it helps!

Hi Luis!

Yes, I'm back and with a new Tokai added to my collection. I think it was supposed to be a Greco since the logo is visible under the Tokai logo in certain light conditions. It's a great guitar, really resonant and good sounding. As you say probably made around 1990 when Tokai seems to have made some guitars for Kanda Shokai (Greco).
 
They will doing so next decade also with some models as far for some other companys....
 
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