ST55 or ST65 from 1981 Pickups

Tokai Forum

Help Support Tokai Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hi guys,

nice thread here so I may throw in some bibs and bobs . . .
1) All Springys from 1977 to 1984 have the grey insulating cover going to the jack socket.
2) The 'A' and 'B' stamped pickguards were only used until early 1980.
3) All 'E' and 'U' pups have 1 white(live) and 1 black (ground) wiring setup. No exceptions. I have seen unstamped pups on very early Springys but they still have the white/blk wiring.
4) All SilverStars have blue/black wiring. Early ones have black bobbins whilst later ones have grey with 'S" or 'H' stamped on them.

If this guitar is 1981, then the scratchplate is not original. The wiring may have been replaced but as all Tokai pups were made by Goto, these could be a set of those. Check the resistance - it should be between 5.7ohm and 6.1ohm.

Good luck
Peter Mac
 
Thanks for chiming in PM.
That sounds like some very good info which would place some serious doubt into the whole idea of, "unmolested"
 
The guitar is in transit to me and has cleared customs. I think it may get delivered tomorrow. Worst case the day after. I will pull it open then and measure the PUs. I am pretty sure I will get Fralin pickups for this guitar anyways. I put Fralins in my 1981 ST-100 and love them. Either way I am going to measure the PU from the ST-65r and post what I find here. This is really intriguing and I am very curious as to what they are now.
 
Just got the guitar. I measured the ohms with my Fluke meter through the 1/4 cable and moved the pickup selector according (bridge, middle, neck). All pots were fully turned on (vol 10, tone 10, tone 10) I got

Bridge - 5.951k
Middle - 5.806k
Neck - 5.723k

Sure measuring them de-soldered would probably give me a closer reading (but only 1-2%). I will do that tomorrow. But I would say these are E pickups from the measurements I got.
 
Peter Mac said:
Hi guys,

nice thread here so I may throw in some bibs and bobs . . .
1) All Springys from 1977 to 1984 have the grey insulating cover going to the jack socket.
2) The 'A' and 'B' stamped pickguards were only used until early 1980.
3) All 'E' and 'U' pups have 1 white(live) and 1 black (ground) wiring setup. No exceptions. I have seen unstamped pups on very early Springys but they still have the white/blk wiring.
4) All SilverStars have blue/black wiring. Early ones have black bobbins whilst later ones have grey with 'S" or 'H' stamped on them.

If this guitar is 1981, then the scratchplate is not original. The wiring may have been replaced but as all Tokai pups were made by Goto, these could be a set of those. Check the resistance - it should be between 5.7ohm and 6.1ohm.

Good luck
Peter Mac



Yes. re: my third post to the thread

that seems like some potentially real info, not BS

However, not seeing that in the OP photo link but fairy tales could be cool & great for kids
 
Peter Mac stated that in his opinion, the scratch plate was not original,this is debatable, as many of us have have all original Springys and Goldies with features and hardware that should by all accounts belong on earlier models, especially those that are only a couple of years apart in production terms. My own totally original 84 Goldstar St 80 has Tokai stamped tuners rather than the De Luxe stamped models usually found on Tokais of this era.There have always seemed to be odd bits and pieces from previous models scattered around the Tokai factory( by all accounts the factory in those days was little bit chaotic) and some of them have undoubtedly found their way on to later models. Peter is a VERY knowledgeable guy, he is though, as I am sure he will admit,not infallible, he has been wrong before, as have we all.He does however, say nothing that suggests that the both the scratch plate and and the pickups fitted to it, are not wholly original and neither have I seen any convincing evidence to suggest otherwise.The soldering on the pickguard AND the pickups looks pristine to me and so I conclude that this is an original A stamped pickguard complete with unstamped Gotoh E pickups with original conductors fitted by Gotoh and not replacement conductors fitted at some later date by a devious seller trying to pull the wool over a potential buyers eyes. As for you, Guitar Hiro, I have no idea what your experience with Tokais is, my own is pretty extensive, I have been collecting Tokais since 79 and researching them for many years ,although I will be the first to admit my knowledge is not definitive and I make no claims to infallibility . I can`t help but notice though that you are relatively recent member of this forum compared to me , so I will forgive your pretty sad attempts at rudeness as a sign of immaturity and a lack of Tokai knowledge. :wink:
 
aroomstudios said:
Just got the guitar. I measured the ohms with my Fluke meter through the 1/4 cable and moved the pickup selector according (bridge, middle, neck). All pots were fully turned on (vol 10, tone 10, tone 10) I got

Bridge - 5.951k
Middle - 5.806k
Neck - 5.723k

Sure measuring them de-soldered would probably give me a closer reading (but only 1-2%). I will do that tomorrow. But I would say these are E pickups from the measurements I got.

20180107_163133.jpg

(1978 ST100)
 
anything & everything is debatable, no one is infallible, parts get changed, transition periods can be confusing with mis-matched parts inventory, anything is possible, etc.

A complete Strat style wiring harness could easily be changed into basically any pick guard and no sign of solder disturbance would occur.
I have done this myself more times than I care to remember.
In such a scenario the only solder points disturbed would be at the jack & at the spring claw ground.

Also, no one in the conversation has yet to demonstrate a single example of the single black insulator surrounding the two pickup wires, for either E, or U pickup examples.
We know that as current fact; there is no debate on that point.

Just because someone has an opinion that any pickup is part XYZ doesn't make it so.
When someone in the conversation can produce a documented example of the single black insulator pickups being exactly what you are claiming it to be, then maybe those that have read the thread may be convinced?

As far as your comment concerning, "immaturity" I would say this.
As far as anyone in this conversation offering anyone credit for a mistaken point, I offered someone in the conversation a, "good catch" for the gray wire insulator that connects to the jack.
That was an admission by me that I was wrong, on that point.
I have yet to see anyone else in the conversation offer such; you included.
Only someone with maturity would offer an admission they were wrong on a point by offering credit to another member for a, "good catch."
So, your claim of, "immaturity" seems to be discredited by the inability of others to admit when they have been incorrect, when I have been the only one here to admit such.

Cheers,
Hiro
 
I've got a set of "U"s that measure

Neck - 6.0
Middle - 6.2
Bridge - 6.1


Let me know if anyone would like to trade a set of "E"'s. I've got mostly humbucker's from boutique winders to offer.
 
The Es are fabulous pickups although some us don`t like them. They really nail that vintage Strat sound. I think that Felix Catus's 6 plus ohms Es are outliers as Es are usually underwound compared to Us.However from what I have read from a very early Tokai catalogue the Es are hand wound as opposed to the Us which are machine wound, so anything is possible as regards the number of windings.
 
bluejeannot said:
The Es are fabulous pickups although some us don`t like them. They really nail that vintage Strat sound. I think that Felix Catus's 6 plus ohms Es are outliers as Es are usually underwound compared to Us.However from what I have read from a very early Tokai catalogue the Es are hand wound as opposed to the Us which are machine wound, so anything is possible as regards the number of windings.

Good point. I must say and fwiw, that to my ears the E's in my 1981 ST80R sound 'smoother' than the E's in my 1978 ST100.
 
Yes, this entire thread replete with members making unsubstantiated claims in regard to Tokai pickups is analogous to a fishing trip in which folks claimed a 12-ounce sun fish was actually a 7 lb. - 8 oz. large mouth black bass.

Pretty funny sh!t
 
guitar hiro said:
Yes, this entire thread replete with members making unsubstantiated claims in regard to Tokai pickups is analogous to a fishing trip in which folks claimed a 12-ounce sun fish was actually a 7 lb. - 8 oz. large mouth black bass.

Pretty funny sh!t
Both Felix and myself know more about Tokai pickups than you will ever know my jumped up little sprat.The quotes about Tokai pickups are entirely substantiated ,it's just that you don't know jack (fish) about any of them. I would stick to fishing for your old freshwater black bass if I were you largemouth. Just leave the sea bass to the adults and the experts,because you are clearly out of your depth in this particular ocean. Pretty funny **** huh? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :
 
bluejeannot said:
guitar hiro said:
Yes, this entire thread replete with members making unsubstantiated claims in regard to Tokai pickups is analogous to a fishing trip in which folks claimed a 12-ounce sun fish was actually a 7 lb. - 8 oz. large mouth black bass.

Pretty funny sh!t
Both Felix and myself know more about Tokai pickups than you will ever know my jumped up little sprat.The quotes about Tokai pickups are entirely substantiated ,it's just that you don't know jack (fish) about any of them. I would stick to fishing for your old freshwater black bass if I were you largemouth. Just leave the sea bass to the experts,because you are clearly out of your depth in this particular ocean.Pretty funny **** huh? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :


and you claim someone else in this conversation to be lacking maturity? LOL.
Why have you failed to produce one, solitary, verified example of Tokai E, or U pickups with the single black insulator?
Your claims are nothing more than claims, and very fishy.
 
http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/gotoh-pickup-help.205902/ Gotoh who manufactured ALL the Tokai greybacked and was the ONLY maker of grey backed pickups in Japan at the time and also supplied Fernandes with the same units ,used a single black insulator on some of their 80s strat pickups.This is not definitive proof by any means, as this particular pickup is a stacked single coil/humbucker and has an additional earth , but it certainly beats any evidence to the contrary put forward by you Mr Hiro to support your theory that this pickguard and it's grey backed pickups, were somehow constructed and immaculately soldered together in a little shed in Yokohama or Kyoto,by some devious faker, using random bits and pieces from his spares drawer, which any Tokai buff would instantly be suspicious of, in order to screw a few extra yen out of an unsuspecting American buyer ! Your supporting evidence for your ludicrous theory seems to be entirely lacking .......but maybe that is because you literally haven't got a clue! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
aroomstudios said:
Just got the guitar. I measured the ohms with my Fluke meter through the 1/4 cable and moved the pickup selector according (bridge, middle, neck). All pots were fully turned on (vol 10, tone 10, tone 10) I got

Bridge - 5.951k
Middle - 5.806k
Neck - 5.723k

Sure measuring them de-soldered would probably give me a closer reading (but only 1-2%). I will do that tomorrow. But I would say these are E pickups from the measurements I got.

so, you have measured the ohms but how do the pickups sound? Do you like them?
 
I actually have not gotten around to listening to them yet. The guitar had 10 year old strings on it. Which I cut off when I pulled the pickguard off the measure them. I ordered a few things for it online. New Tremolo locking tuners etc. So, I am not going to put it back together until that stuff comes in a few weeks.

It needs some work but for the price it is a pretty good guitar.
 
Back
Top