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One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.
 
amunro said:
One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.
Click to expand...

I think you're right :D
 
amunro said:
One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.
Click to expand...

There's some debate about this. Personally I think I would use the term Sen Ash or maybe Sen (Ash). Some people claim that Tokai used ash & sen at different times, but I doubt if there's any proof of this. Why would they use both when they clearly had a good supply of sen available?

Apparently sen is not directly related to ash, & I have heard the ivy theory too! Some websites claim it is nothing like ash, & that tonally it's more like poplar. My opinion is that that is rubbish.

Having compared a sen Strat & an ash Strat, & a sen Tele & an ash Tele, I am convinced that sen has the tonal characteristics of ash, & it looks similar too. In fact it often looks nicer than ash. :wink:
 
amunro said:
Trying to close down the Silver Star debate, I have extended the table to refer to both versions of the SS60 with some notes to explain.

I'd be grateful if some knowledgable folks could review and comment.

A couple of points:

First, I guessed at the pickup types for the flat pole-piece SS60s. Can someone validate?

Secondly, we still need to resolve the question of pickups on the lower end SS36-40 and SS48-50 models.

As before, the updated article is here:http://burningpine.com/TokaiForewor...rial number.Keep up the excellent work, Gabe.
Click to expand...
 
bluejeannot said:
With regards to Goldie St 60s ,an awful lot of them were fitted with Es not Vs.
Click to expand...

Hi Gabe, just to be clear, the E stamped puckups were made with the "Alnico V" alloy (as opposed to the earlier alloy, Alnico III (I think)), so in this context E isV.

Do you mean, "E's not U's" rather than "E's not V's"?

thanks
Andrew
 
Hi Andrew,I don`t know if E stamped pickups are alnico 5,3 or whatever but I was referring to the fact that some St 60 goldies came stock fitted with E stamped pickups, and some with V stamped pickups,whether the V stamp means Alnico 5,I doubt it,I think it refers to Vintage.Cheers Gabe.
 
I don't recall ever seeing anyone comment or speculate about what sort of Alnico was used. I would guess at Alnico V as it's the most commonly used for Strat pickups, but hey, this is Tokai we're discussing.

The trouble with getting into details on the later pickups is that after the Us were replaced (why???) Tokai used a variety of different stamps, IIV, VII, VI, & I have yet to see a definitive description of what the codes meant. I really don't know why they didn't just fit Us to everything!

Maybe it's better to not get drawn into too much detail on the pickups on the later guitars?
 
stratman323 said:
I don't recall ever seeing anyone comment or speculate about what sort of Alnico was used. I would guess at Alnico V as it's the most commonly used for Strat pickups, but hey, this is Tokai we're discussing.

The trouble with getting into details on the later pickups is that after the Us were replaced (why???) Tokai used a variety of different stamps, IIV, VII, VI, & I have yet to see a definitive description of what the codes meant. I really don't know why they didn't just fit Us to everything!

Maybe it's better to not get drawn into too much detail on the pickups on the later guitars?
Click to expand...
So do you think the Vs were fitted to Goldie st 60s when the E`s ran out Mike?Gabe.
 
bluejeannot said:
So do you think the Vs were fitted to Goldie st 60s when the E`s ran out Mike?Gabe.
Click to expand...

Did the Es run out? The Us seemed to run out as they were replaced with the various Vs on the cheaper models, but I thought the Es continued in use on the higher models after the Us stopped?

All this discussion about pickups that are, at best, average..... :roll:
 
Sorry Mike,I think E`s are fantastic pickups they have a wonderful airy chiming quaity that I associate with50`s and early sixties strats.They are subtle though,more Rock and roll and rockabilly than rock,more Jimmy Vaughn than Stevie and more Buddy Holly than Jimi, and because they are slightly underpowered they don`t overpower the acoustic character of the guitar making for a very expressive and tactile experience. Gabe.
 
To go slightly off topic re info for the book...

I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
Cheers.
Dave
 
imosdad said:
I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
Click to expand...

I have found Goldies to be remarkably consistent. In no particular order:

7lb 8
7lb 11
7lb 11
8lb 2
7lb 11
8lb 0
7lb 11


Two that I have sold were:

8lb 1
8lb 9

Springys:

ST60 7lb 14
ST80 7lb 4 (the lightest Strat I have)

8)
 
To go slightly off topic re info for the book...

I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
Cheers.
Dave
 
Last Call...

Folks, I've just posted the sixth and hopefully final version of the article up on the page: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx.

It contains just a few tweaks from the previous version and, in the absence of any feedback to the contrary, I am proposing that this is the final version for publication.

Let me know,

Andrew
 
Andrew

Don't know if you want to update the table, but there were also some ST-70 Springy's, maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.

Mick (Leadguitar323) has one of the maple ones
 
amunro said:
JohnA said:
there were also some ST-70 Springy's, maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.
Click to expand...

Never say "never", never say "final" :D ...

I've added in the ST70 here: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Any final words?

Andrew
Click to expand...

I'm sure someone will find something the day after the book goes to print :D Looks great to me though, probably the most comprehensive and accurate piece ever written about Tokai Strats!!
 
amunro said:
Never say "never", never say "final" :D ...

I've added in the ST70 here: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Any final words?

Andrew
Click to expand...

First, well done for getting so close to 2 definitive tables to explain the various Tokai Strats - that's quite an achievement. However.....

In the Springy/Goldie table:

Why state that the Springy/Goldie pickups are Alnico V? Since some were stamped V, that's confusing. Is anybody certain that the magnets used were Alnico V (i.e 5) as opposed to Alnico 2 or 3? If not, why not just state "Alnico"? Keep it simple. :wink:

ST60s could either have Us or Es - both are well documented.

In the Silver Star table:

As stated before, the pickups on the entry level models were NOT ceramic. This would be very confusing if it went into the book like this. Most (all?) that I have seen had unstamped pickups.

The SS36/38/40 could be 3 or 4 piece body, not just 3 as the table states.

On the 3 bolt SS60, the pickup pole pieces are not flat, they have a slight stagger. I just checked the ones from my SS60. Also, were they really DiMarzios? That's news to me if they were. Are we sure we want to include this as fact? Keep it simple. :wink:

It's not true that SS pickups changed from grey bottom to black bottom in 1981. I had a 1982 SS with grey bottomed Alnico pickups, & Iain wants it in the book, so please let's not state something that the pics will prove to be untrue!

The SS60 was produced in 1980, not just 1981 - I have one from 1980.

Cheers. 8)
 
Just to reinfoce Mike`s points,only pickups with a bar magnet on the bottom are ceramics, ie goldie st 40s.Secondly Goldie st60s came fitted with V and U stamped pickups,and many of them had E stamped pickups too so, it is not true to say that only Springys were fitted with Es. Cheers Gabe.
 
bluejeannot said:
Just to reinfoce Mike`s points,only pickups with a bar magnet on the bottom are ceramics, ie goldie st 40s.Secondly Goldie st60s came fitted with V and U stamped pickups,and many of them had E stamped pickups too so, it is not true to say that only Springys were fitted with Es. Cheers Gabe.
Click to expand...

Vs? I'm sure I have only seen Es & Us on an ST60. It might be safer, & easier, to not mention the lettering on the pickups & to refer readers of the book to the forum for greater clarification. This would make the tables simpler to read too.

The only important distinction really is that Springy & Goldie ST40/42s had ceramic pickups, & the rest had Alnicos. Everything else is detail which perhaps we can do without in this book?
 

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