vikingblues said:I don't see much "Gibson bashing" on the early models which did create that style of guitar - quite the reverse. Much sought after guitars - with good reason.
vikingblues said:When I see top professional musicians advising the need to try 10 or 20 Les Pauls to get a good...
vikingblues said:I'm not anti-Gibson - I've had a Gibson Standard (sold in bad times) that was very very good and was my first real quality guitar, but it was no better than the Tokai LC85 or LS equivalent and its a hell of a price differential.
vikingblues said:To go down the Historic route to get a better tone the price differential gets really silly.
vikingblues said:I also tried Gibsons at the same sort of price level as the LC85 - moving into the realms of Specials, Fadeds etc and the tone was far below the Gibson Standard model and the quality of finish and fittings on one in particular was on a par with something knocked together on a kitchen table with old radio parts - very disappointing as I had thought I would one day get another Gibson. This disappointment was a major factor in my looking at Tokais in the first place. If this post sounds anti-Gibson it is probably because of that disappointment.
vikingblues said:Why should people who haven't tried a guitar built by a supposedly high quality manufacturer be likely to get a "crap" guitar? I would hope a quality luthier would only make and sell good quality guitars! There is no excuse for a guitar costing thousands to be poor quality.
leadguitar_323 said:I have perfect pitch, as i developed my ear it became even more obvious as too the short comings of these guitars. I suppose when the mighty dollar takes a back seat to pride and producing a great product then maybe the consistency will get better.
leadguitar_323 said:This still amazes me and it surprised Oze as well, my point, it cost me under 400 Aussie dollars shipped and eats gibbo's for breakfast. The combined cost of my 2 custom Tokai's was under 2 grand and they are both ALL Honduras mahogany.
Today's values please or else it doesn't offer a meaningful comparison to new prices.
Gibson made some great guitars a long time ago - so now we have to forget about them? Makes sense - they obviously can't be expected to keep up the quality! I think Gibson did manage to produce many more good quality guitars than the 1800 you refer to, and we ought to be able to use those produced when Gibson had a good reputation for quality as a benchmark.JVsearch said:Most of the people that have played bursts are dead, or they are collectors with vaults. There were only about 1800 made, forget them, there is nothing comparable in the new goods market.
I'm afraid that's what some people have said. I am not going to waste my time, money and effort trying 20 guitars to find a good one when the cost of what is being sold screams at me that the quality should be good. I had a good go at trying some but I'm not willing to go past half a dozen or so as I think the manufacturers and shops have a duty of care to sell product of a quality equating to the price.JVsearch said:I just don't believe this - there will be some truth in it, but more exaggeration I think. If you personally have tried 20 to find one that was any good then fine, otherwise it's hearsay.vikingblues said:When I see top professional musicians advising the need to try 10 or 20 Les Pauls to get a good...
vikingblues said:I also tried Gibsons at the same sort of price level as the LC85 - moving into the realms of Specials, Fadeds etc and the tone was far below the Gibson Standard model and the quality of finish and fittings on one in particular was on a par with something knocked together on a kitchen table with old radio parts - very disappointing as I had thought I would one day get another Gibson. This disappointment was a major factor in my looking at Tokais in the first place. If this post sounds anti-Gibson it is probably because of that disappointment.
So now I'm a liar - thanks friend. My personal experience is EXACTLY as stated. Very disappointed - I loved the Gibson that I had and I was gutted at having to get rid of it - sorry, but I am NOT a Gibson hater - it would have been such an easier task to find a guitar if I was - why try all these Gibsons if I hate them?. OK, agreed about imperfections not being important, but that one I mentioned was worse than imperfections - the kitchen table was NOT an exageration - I couldn't believe it was a Gibson when it was put into my hands to try. (I have built several guitars myself so I know what crappy build is first hand - I would have been ashamed to sell one of my self builds in that state).JVsearch said:Fadeds got pretty good reviews? The kitchen table analogy - all just exaggeration, and a typical response for a Gibson hater? You said yourself that your own Standard was good? I'm not bothered by finish imperfections unless they are really bad, but that's just me.
Sorry I can't accept that. If high volume production equals poor QC and bad product being sold then we're in deep s**t with the food manufacturers. I work in food manufacture and the bigger we have got the more important QC has become and the less we have been able to risk bad product.JVsearch said:However, it's certainly possible to buy a guitar or two from any manufacturer and get a dog, it may play and look all right but sounds poor. They do happen, and it's not a QC issue when you're talking about the high volume production level.
So dealers don't do their job. Has anyone at Gibson considered that maybe they need to amend how goods leave the factory so as not to put off prospective customers? I agree that we should all be able to do set up jobs on guitars - I see more evidence that this is happening but there are still far too many posts on guitar forums from people that do not feel able / confident to do this and from people who advise for every problem to use a guitar tech. I'm happy to tweak the set up and do this whenever I get a new guitar but I think the set up in the shop should be pretty near right already. One of my major local guitar shops refuses to give out Allen Keys as they claim their guitar tech has "seen too many disasters". They're more than happy to take more money from you for their guitar tech to do a set up though. Not a game I'll play with them.JVsearch said:Call it a fad or trend but there's this idea that you should set up a guitar the way you like it, Gibson capitalised on that idea and released their product with rough set-ups expecting the dealers to make them nice. This was fine until dealers got squeezed, and now many Gibsons get sold not playing as good as they could. But this is easy fixed.
I can agree to disagree on this. This is why I feel I have to shop around with the less well known brands.JVsearch said:The bottom line is that Gibson is a corporation that now exists only to make money, the corporation has a monopoly on its brand which is very strong. They are maybe on the way down now, because Gibson USA needs only to be better than Epiphone which they are, and the Historics just need to be better than Gibson USA, and they are a lot better. Any company that tries to produce the volume that Gibson produces will end up around the same quality level. Fender are similar, but I think they have slightly better fret work. That's modern life.
Enjoy getting Tokais for the current prices, because if there's any underlying fairness to a free market system then Tokai should be charging players a lot more and making a lot more money!
I think we've got to agree to disagree.
JVsearch said:Anyway, I'm fine with being wrong, and being a mean spirited twat or whatever you want to think of me. I can say that, because I actually am quite mean spirited!
In the end we've had different experiences with Gibsons.
vikingblues said:And vaporboy, my apologies for my part in hijacking the thread. Not to mention my contribution to the WW3 hostilities.
JVsearch said:vikingblues said:And vaporboy, my apologies for my part in hijacking the thread. Not to mention my contribution to the WW3 hostilities.
Thanks for adding this. I've looked back over the thread, and it was mostly my fault.
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