Baachus BLP-59 - What? When? etc

Discussion area for Bacchus/Momose/Deviser guitars.
JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Probably not as many as you, maybe had 7 or 8 Baccus Strats through my hands, some with flat poles & some with beveled, all sounded very similar to my ears. the 'dots' make me think they all came from the same manufacturer, Keiyo, and alnico specials were re-named Yuta at some point.

It's just an opinion, I may be wrong, but that doesn't make it BS

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Post by MIJvintage » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:53 pm

edit
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Last edited by MIJvintage on Fri May 21, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MIJvintage » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:02 pm

edit
Last edited by MIJvintage on Fri May 21, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:04 pm

I haven't read anything, and I'm not stating as fact, just expressing a personal opinion that there are enough similarities in appearance and sound to suggest that all of the pickups COULD be made by keiyo, and Yutas are just an evolution of the Alnico Specials and therefor the main change was maybe only the name in the Bacchus catalogues.

To be honest I don't really care they all sound great!

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Post by MIJvintage » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:08 pm

edit
Last edited by MIJvintage on Fri May 21, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jacco
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Post by jacco » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 am

Ok, so MIJvintage & JohnA don't like each other anymore..
The only problem here is that MIJvintage is into details and JohnA is not. To demonstrate this, here's MIJvintage:
instead of paying attention to the differences in the actual physical/visual attributes of the two different pickups, it seemed that some were more interested in pickup output
And here's JohnA:
if you are after all the anal details like hide glue look elsewhere
It's a shame to see that the 2 persons with probably the most experience on Bacchus strats here on the forum aren't working together on this matter. :(

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:49 am

jacco wrote:Ok, so MIJvintage & JohnA don't like each other anymore..
The only problem here is that MIJvintage is into details and JohnA is not. To demonstrate this, here's MIJvintage:
instead of paying attention to the differences in the actual physical/visual attributes of the two different pickups, it seemed that some were more interested in pickup output
And here's JohnA:
if you are after all the anal details like hide glue look elsewhere
It's a shame to see that the 2 persons with probably the most experience on Bacchus strats here on the forum aren't working together on this matter. :(

Hi Jaco

No, looking at the details there is IMO definitely evidence to suggest Alnico Specials and YUTA's are quite possibly evolutions of the same pickup, manufactured by Keiyo, the coloured dots on the bases which are definitely done by Keiyo as I have bought aftermarket YUTAS which already have the dots so they don't look like they are done by Bacchus, the baseplate material and construction look identical, and I know all Strat pickups look similar, but looking at the 'details' they look more than just similar.

Also IMO the ones with the flat poles and the ones with the bevelled poles sound the same, mijvintage has said the YUTAS 'suck' which I find a funny comment as they sound exactly like the others which are believed not to be YUTAS.

In the past we have tried to get together some resistance readings to try and establish if there is a pattern between the flat pole pickups and the bevelled poles, but mij has been totally dismissive of the idea insisting that readings are meaningless, IMO they are facts that can assist us in identifying details using hard evidence.

I haven't 'fallen out' with mij, but I admit that his attitude often frustrates me, especially when rather than answer a simple, direct question, he thinks it's better to make a smart-arsed comment!!

tot ziens :D

John

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:43 am

MIJvintage wrote:yes, all Strat pickup usually have 6 poles, a magnet, a bobbin, some wires, and they all sound the same, so they must be made by ACME pickups in Arizona, yep ...................
Really? I thought only ceramic pickups had 6 poles & a separate magnet? Alnico pickups don't have a separate magnet, the poles are the magnets. I'm surprised you don't know that MIJ. :o

Once again, the reason we are having this "heated debate" (as Mrs. Merton used to say) is because we are faced with a Japanese manufacturer who can't be bothered to write their name on their products.

Why???? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

It's pretty basic business sense to stamp or engrave the name of your company on your product so people know they have the genuine article. Why don't companies do this?

In some ways, Bare Knuckle is a shining example of what to do - they engrave their company name on the base of their Strat pickups in a way that must be hard to fake. Great. 8) But then they spoil it all by failing to give any indication of which model pickup they have carefully engraved! :roll: A set of BK Irish Tour pickups I thought I had turn out to be a Slow Hand set, according to Tim at BK. It's a good job he can tell because I couldn't.

Incidentally, the Slow Hand set, fitted to one Goldie, makes an interesting comparison with the Yuta/Alnico SP/whatever the hell they are set I bought from John & fitted to another Goldie. They are broadly similar in tone & resistance readings, overwound, rather fat & warm sounding & with a hotter bridge pickup (7.4k to 7.8k). Right now I think the Yutas/whatever are winning, mainly because of the excessive stagger on the middle two poles of the BKs. But it's close.

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Post by MIJvintage » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:15 am

JohnA wrote: To be honest I don't really care
Maybe Bacchus knew that the mystery of their Strat pickups would rank right up there with the Freemasons & the JFK assassination :lol:

Even tho' I previously documented some physical/visual differences in the Strat type pickups in some Bacchus guitars, and have done it once again in this thread, I still have not used a meter on either type so, I have no idea which type has what output.

In a previous thread, I voiced that I prefer the flat pole examples from the earlier Vintage Series BST-64V models over the beveled pole examples in the later BST-62 examples.

I'm really glad that Marcus digs the tone from the flat top poles in his extremely early example, and non catalog BST-64V relic 8) and that he digs the pickups & the guitar so much he actually has made this his 'go to' Strat.
I think that says a lot about the earlier Bacchus Strat style pickups, which are the ones I prefer.


Having said all of that I do mainly agree with the above statement from JohnA, and yes, we can agree on something :D :lol:


.......... and after all, I thought this was a Bacchus Les Paul thread :P .............
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Post by JohnA » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:37 am

Yes, mij we do agree now and again :wink:

As usual we've gone off-topic, My '57 factory relic is my go to Strat, and also has flat pole pickups, but the bevelled pole ones I've had sounded the same to me, it's odd that you express a preference for one over the other.

Bottom line is if you pick up a bacchus vintage seties, Strat, Tele, LP or SG it'll be a very well made, great sounding guitar :D

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Post by jacco » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:06 am

what do you think is a good price for such a guitars, something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.nl/Bacchus-BST-57-Repli ... 1e5b647463

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:22 am

jacco wrote:what do you think is a good price for such a guitars, something like this?

http://cgi.ebay.nl/Bacchus-BST-57-Repli ... 1e5b647463
That one used to be mine! Nice smallish V neck and in great condition! I think the starting price is fair, a very good price in UK/Europe would be 600-650 but the problem is finding one!

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:33 am

Bacchi seem to have gone up a lot in the last year or two, more than Tokais have done.

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Post by JohnA » Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:51 am

stratman323 wrote:Bacchi seem to have gone up a lot in the last year or two, more than Tokais have done.
I think that's mainly to do with the fact there aren't a lot of Bacchi already in the country/Europe and the cost of getting a guitar from Japan to here has increased a lot in the last few years, partly to do with prices going up in Japan, but more to do with the shocking GBP/JPY exchange rate.

A lot more Tokais are changing hands that were originally bought in the UK/Europe so the owners are only trying to re-coup what they paid plus a bit for inflation.

If you are in the UK the 'bargains' are on ebay UK

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Post by marcusnieman » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:19 am

That 57 is gorgeous.

Bacchus is still relatively unknown here in the States. The thing I hear more about mine is "What is it? Can I play it?"

With all the discusson about the pickups, in my own pedestrian way, like Rich said, I think the pickups in it are some of the best strat pickups I've ever heard...... and for some reason, I'd concluded that they were Yutas. Now finding that they aren't, it doesn't change how good they sound or how damn well made that guitar is...... just love it.

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