Killer LS120 on Fleabay

Music stores and pawn shops where Tokai guitars have been spotted for sale. New or used.

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villager
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Post by villager » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:13 pm

yes ..but i respect togps knowledge ..i would like to know why he thinks the joint is not normal for a 120....i think he is mistaken....but I await pics with interest....

I would have bought it as a ls-120 ...esp from ed...i have spent a lot of time with the guy and he knows his stuff...he's also a good honest guy ..
so i would be surprised if he got it wrong....

oldflame
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Post by oldflame » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:32 pm

Vapourman is the master..... Glad to hear it. :roll:

CrusHtone
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I just bought a sweetheart from Vaporman

Post by CrusHtone » Sun Nov 19, 2006 12:43 am

Did anyone see the ES150J Reborn last week.

www.ebay.com Item # 280045882621

I havn't even plugged it in yet. But it plays sweet and looks awesome. The only complaint I have is it is a little heavy, not much.
I havn't put it on the scale yet, but feels to be a little on the plus side of 8lbs. That is probably average weight for these though.

I would love to hear what ya'll think.

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Crushtone
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oldflame
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ES150J

Post by oldflame » Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:19 am

Yes we even had a chat about it over at the Ibanez Collectors World forum.

It's a beauty! :D

togps
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Post by togps » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:49 am

villager wrote: ... and do you have a deep neck joint pic to compare?
togps wrote: Sure. I'm out of office for the weekend. I'll shot a pic next week.
Here we go:

LS120, 1981


Image

LS120, 1982


Image

Hope that helps.

BTW, I'll get some high end Reborns in December. If there is a demand, I'll shot as well pics of those neck cavities.

villager
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Post by villager » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:00 am

ok so your saying that there is no join visable at the bottom of that cavity..its a continuation of the neck...whereas ochays you can see the neck bottom join at the beginning of the cavity?

togps
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Post by togps » Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:24 am

Edit start
No ! Hmm, maybe a language barrier?

Tokai features two neck ends:

Normal, without neck tongue.
By view in the neck cavity: The neck plug reaming is empty. See ochays pics.
Deep Joint, extended with neck tongue.
By view in the neck cavity: The neck tongue fills the little plug reaming. See my pics.
Edit end



Here a pic of my Spalted Maple Custom made Tokai


Image

Here a neck cavity of a LS320
Image

ochay
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Post by ochay » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:47 pm

Villager---
togps shows the 2 variations
1st set of pic from his 1981 and 1982 are >>>>
Normal, without neck tongue(from 1977 until early ninties)

2nd set of togps pics are>>>>>>
with long neck tendon that extends into the pickup cavity (Newer Tokai's)

oh.... togps and oldflame the 1982 Amber Love Rock I just received is a real flametop and a LS120
also may even be an LS150 with that level of flame(real deep)-
vaporman has a 1977 Tokail Les Paul Model-plaintop I'm gonna try and get her from him
Guitar Farmer !

tokaigeezer
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Post by tokaigeezer » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:53 pm

Gee, this has sure turned into a fun thread ... :roll:

I'm no expert so I can't make a call here, but it seems that there is no rock-solid way to tell if what's being sold online is an LS100 or LS 120, because the stickers are almost always gone. True, the neck angle and pickup models offer clues, but it doesn't seem definitive to me. And what exactly does "Tiger Flame," (on the translated spec sheet) mean, anyway?

The catalogs on the Registry show some LS80s with almost as much flame as the LS120. They also show LS120s with covered Dimarzios and also uncovered. If Gottfried is right, that the real LS120s have the deep neck joint with an extended tongue (sounds kinda gross, huh?), then this really throws a spanner into the works. This could mean that people could be overestimating their guitars' model numbers and hence, valuation.

But this LS120 flap raises other issues. For example, it makes economic sense to me that Tokai sold more LS100s than 120s. Were there were really that many Japanese customers in the early 1980s who would pay an extra 20,000-40,000 Yen (more than an LS100) for a bit of extra flame? For a copy of a Gibson? If this is so, why are there so many LS120s out there? Or are they LS100s in sheep's clothing? Who can tell? The LS120s should be more scarce, but lately there has been quite a few 120s on eBay. Why are all these "Holy Grail" Tokais beginning to show up as their asking price approaches and exceeds the $2K plateau?

I love the controversies on these issues, but until we get a definitive word on how to ID LS120s (and higher models) from the Tokai craftsmen who made them (ie., a dead-accurate book) or more catalogs that are acurately translated, it seems very specious to me. I wouldn't spend that kind of jack for an LS120 when it could be a 100 or even an LS80 with some flame. But then, as a former reporter, I can't help being skeptical.

I also love this Website, because it reflects all the hard work to make it so accurate and impartial. Kudos to Ned, once again.

villager
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Post by villager » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:58 am

pre 1982 ALL 100 are plaintop and all 120 flametop...

togps
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Post by togps » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:08 am

ochay wrote: ... Villager--- togps shows the 2 variations
1st set of pic from his 1981 and 1982 are >>>>
Normal, without neck tongue(from 1977 until early ninties)
HEY, ochay, you are wrong. Both of them feature deep joint !!
Jeeez, I' gonna like this thread..#

Villager, hurry up. Send the forum neck cavity pic of your new baby LS200.-
Then ochay, you'll see the same neck cavity with!! deep joint as in my first shot of pics

villager
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Post by villager » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:18 am

hee ..its on its way to france with all my other guitars..will do in a couple weeks...

ochay ..if it was a 150 it would have the dimarzio super distortions with the double hex poles yes?

togps
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Post by togps » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:23 am

villager wrote:pre 1982 ALL 100 are plaintop and all 120 flametop...
No, villager. It is not like black and white. It is more a mix of both. Also sometimes withh additional birds eyes sections.
Here two samples of LS120 tops:

This lady, I stock current: LS120, 1980

Image

Here a LS120, 1982, sold to forum member Hot Rod

Image
Last edited by togps on Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

villager
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Post by villager » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:41 am

yes i know the line drawn between birdseye/plain/flame is not as definate as it sounds..but my point was that thats what the catalogue represents for the model differences pre 1892...so if you see a well flamed pre1982 Love rock or Reborn then its more than likely to be a 120..

its when you get a Plain/figured/almost but not quite flamed 100 that it gets tricky...thats when the neck joint thing possibly comes into play...

although I am still to be 100% convinced on that one, but when i do a detailed examination of all my 80's 100's and 120's I will either support or refute this matter...however ..togps pics do illustrate a difference it seems, in the neck joint...the crux of the matter is that from a pic itshard to determine the depth of the cavity..if the joint is long, then the cavity will be shallower to allow for the extra woob...but if the same depth, then that would tend to suggest that the tenon is not long, but the bottom join of the neck/body, which is clearly visable on ochays guitar, could be simply obscured by glue and clearcoat..as i said ..I need to check all mine properly.....

togps
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Post by togps » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:58 am

villager wrote: ..I need to check all mine properly.....
Thanks, villager. Don't forget the LS200 pic.

OT
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