Ebay-Germany - Warning !!

Hi,

think it is interesting also for the "rest of the world" ...

They warn their members to avoid buying so called "high class musical entertainment products" offered from HongKong or China ... :lol:

After the payment they are used to be not delivered !!

The mostly private sellers usually have just up to 20 feedbacks. They seem to offer their products in fraudulent intent ... 8)

They didn't say what products the mean ... but we've seen alot of them already, right ??

... although - some did get already what they've deserved !! :roll:

Roger

i would never buy from hong kong or china...I dont even read the listings anymore...all scammers

I complain to eb*y regularly every month about Chinese listings. I know of others who do the same. If they get enough complaints they might do something.

villager said:

i would never buy from hong kong or china...I dont even read the listings anymore...all scammers

Click to expand...

Hmm, whilst there are dozens of scams & "stolen listings" featuring previously listed/sold guitars from China, mostly with zero feedback, i've NEVER seen any from Hong Kong...

I really think you need to differentiate Hong Kong from China - very different markets and people ...
Hong Kong was a British Colony for 156 years and the system that evolved is very much more regulated and well administered than most people could possibly imagine compared with almost any city in Europe or USA/Canada.

Since the 1970's & the introduction of the ICAC (Independent Commission Against Corruption) etc., Hong Kong has worked very hard to weed out & crush fraud, scams, organized crime etc. & clean up it's old image.
Hong Kong is economically and culturally different from China and along with Singapore is arguably one of the two safest and most reliable cities in the world, ...and certainly far safer, more efficient & better run than London, UK, where I lived for 30+ years.

I've been living here 16 years now & buying/selling guitars & related stuff on eBay since 2000 - mostly stuff for my own use or that I've 'finished with'.
My eBay name is cybercat-hk - check out my feedback etc., perfect, as are those of most of my many musician friends who live & work here.

The "on-line" laws here are strict & enforced - e.g.: - the first prosecution for illegal music/movie sharing in the world was in Hong Kong last year (the guy was imprisoned for 3 years) & there have even been cases of people prosecuted for pretending to be younger &/or different sex in chat rooms etc - just last month a guy was sentenced to do 300 hours community service for fantasizing about "flash-mob rape" on a sex chat site...

I can't give examples of prosecutions for scam guitar sales as I've never heard of any such scams originating here - & I've visited eBay & the guitar forums (Gear Page, MusicToyz, etc., as well as here) almost daily for several years.

Of course people are people, anywhere in the world, & I'm not saying that every single person that lives or has ever lived in Hong Kong is a saint, there's bound to be a few bad eggs wherever in the world you go, be it HK, UK, USA, Germany, Japan, ...wherever.

BUT blanket comments like - "all scammers!" - above could seriously affect me and my friends, as well as a load of other decent Hong Kong sellers and perhaps even buyers....

Hong Kong has a high percentage of players (locals & many of them from the tens or hundreds of thousands of expats from US/Canada, UK/Germany/Europe, Australia/NZ & Japan etc.), many very good live gig/club venues and a large number of classic vintage instrument collectors, as well as one of the more famous luthiers in the world working from here!

Tudor - I don't see any link in your post to the warning on eBay-Germany.

Could you clarify - Is that an official eBay warning based on actual cases eBay has dealt with?
- or is it one of the new-ish user-generated features like "review" or "related guide" that any user can post giving his/her opinions & anecdotal evidence without any legal proof etc ?
- I'd be very grateful if you could help clear this up.

BTW - I've posted some pics of Hong Kong (so you can see a little of what it's like), and me & my guitars (inc. several nice Tokais) going back 30+ years on my homepage: -
http://homepage.mac.com/cybercat/

Dear Tudor-I saw your concern of items coming for Hong Kong or China. They are completely different places, have you ever been to either? If you have you would see the difference right away. I first moved here in 1985 as a tennis professional at a country club. Have done over 140 deals on ebay and have 100% feedback many guitars and guitar related items both buying and selling. I own two Tokias and plan on buying another am also a contributor to the form. In total I have at least 10 guitars that I am very pround of from Taylor to seagull fender Tokai etc. I really enjoy hong Kong and the musicians here are great. Please understand that there is a a difference form Hong Kong to China. You have to be careful when buying from China not so much Hong Kong Most items that claim Hong Kong are really china!!!!!!!!!!!!. I have reported several to ebay. Please do not bulk everyone that lives in Hong Kong in your statments it hurts us here as lovers of music Tokai and the industry as well as honest ebayers. Watch out for items that are $2.00 buy it now with 256.00 shipping cost (I have contacted ebay several times about this but they have done nothing about it) Maybe you should contact ebay instead of degrading Hong Kong it is not Hong Kong it is china totaly different!!! Thanks Bob in Hong Kong

Hi
I just want to add my support to the comments of "cybercat" and "crazdog" in that I also, amongst many others, have spent much time in Hong Kong since 1994 and hate to see it unfairly maligned.

"HK" has a lot of musicians as well as guitarists and many really special guitar collections live here.
It is also the home town of maybe the biggest music shop in the Asia-Pacific region, Tom Lee, along with many other great music outlets.

Hong Kong people are generally very reliable and decent in business as well as in person and to me it seems wrong to taint their good name - hence why "HK" became such an important and major trading city in this world!

Hong Kong, along with Singapore are quite unique cities and "world class" international trade, in all areas, are the backbone of thier existance.
Hong Kong Post, as a part of EMS, are incredibly reliable and quick, BTW, but all the major world shippers and airlines have regional HQ's in Hong Kong too.
This is a very densely populated city but really is an extrordinarily safe, easy and well organized place, in world terms.
English is predominantly spoken for business.
International Telephone code prefix is (+852).

Perhaps a good thing to look out for on eBay auctions which could maskerade that they are from "HK" (beyond the obvious need to check a reliable feedback score) it to notice the currency of the auction.
"HK" trades in Hong Kong Dollars, which are pegged to the US Dollar but externally US, Australian, Canadian, New Zealand dollars and UK Pound will likely be quoted.
If the currency quoted is RMB or Yuan, then it possibly could be a spoof mainland Chinese or other seller, I suggest and maybe you should be more cautious
Payment to "HK" would normally be via PayPal or other secure means and it would be "world class" fast.

As with everywhere, be wise in what you look to buy.
However, please don't be put off Hong Kong, it's a great city that has pretty much anything required "on this planet" available now, reliably, with great prices and service!
Oh, there are some great guitarists, bands and venues as well!

Thanks for hearing me out, Greg.

i agree with all the above..however, Hong Kong is very close to mainland china, and its pretty easy for a chinese scammer to use Hong Kong as a mailing address...what i meant was i consider all chinese auctions to be scams..apologies to those maligned in Hong Kong ...obviously feedback comes into the equation too...

ebay USA has had this notice up for a while as well. You'll see it on the left side, under "Related Guides", "CHINA GUITAR SCAM".

For example, on the main Guitar --> Electric page:
http://instruments.listings.ebay.com/Guitar_Electric_W0QQfromZR4QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQsacatZ33034QQsocmdZListingItemList
You'll find it under the left listing of all the brands you can drill down into.

So ebay will warn you about the scam, but keep listing the auctions?

isn't the point here the auctions that clone other genuine auctions and offer the guitar for a ridiculous price?

DragonAxe, crazdog, Cybercat,

sorry for the delay, but I am waiting for a statement from "ebay Germany Customer Support " to their warning ... nothing until now - but I've got the answer that they will give me a reply within 72 hours ... 8)

Maybe you should contact ebay instead of degrading Hong Kong it is not Hong Kong it is china totaly different / and hate to see it unfairly maligned.

Click to expand...

Guys, your are "slaughtering the wrong pig" !!!

YES - I have never been in Hong Kong and I would never, never presume to degrade your Country or someone in general or special !!
If you feel degraded by my post, I apologize - that was not my intent !!
Ebay titled both countries in one sentence - why should I modify the text by leaving out one of the mentioned countries ... ??? :-?
The text was in German, I tried to translate by babelfish, but the translation was ridiculous ... so I decided to continue my ebay affairs and pressed the button below (to my ebay account) ... the message disappeared.
Later on I gave this message to the best of my knowledge to this forum as you can see above ... and I'm waiting now that ebay Germany provides the text once more (it was in the secure section - no spam possible) ... :roll:

So what's wrong - that you feel degraded or whatever by a message that I just relayed ??????? :evil:
In the Ancient Greece, people were executed when they delivered a bad message ... but we are living now in the 21st century and you should also see the difference between a proposition and a referring to a message that an "official institution like ebay" gave to his members ...
So - your special instructions about your country and the people who live there are appreciated by me very much - because I love to learn alot about those countries I never had been before ... but I am the wrong addressee ... and there's no need to react highly sensitive on me!!
I'll keep you informed regarding the Ebay answer ASAP.

Roger
PS. ... sorry for the long rant - but I'm excited ... :evil:
... hope there will not be an International crisis caused by my post ... !! 8)

It's a shame but ebay.fr is also terrible. A lot of fake announce...

I think ebay germany is one of the safest.

Hi,

I've got the reply from ebay Germany.

I try to give you the original site, but you'll have to sign in. Maybe it doesn't work because they have sent it to my personal ebay account.


https://signin.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?SignIn&UsingSSL=1&pUserId=&co_partnerId=2&siteid=77&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsignin.ebay.de%3A80%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FSignInRTMMessage%26mW%3D750%26ru%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fmy.ebay.de%253A80%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FMyeBay%2526ssPageName%253DADME%25253AB%25253ATB4%25253ADE%25253A1%26SignInRTMMessage%3D%26mK%3DM_14072_C_8389%26mH%3D250%26e%3D1&pageType=2604

... in this case - look here - the copy of the text ...

Sch?tzen Sie sich vor Online-Betr?gern!

Liebes eBay-Mitglied,
wir m?chten Sie als K?ufer vor einer neuen Masche von Betr?gern warnen, die den Online-Marktplatz eBay missbrauchen.
Dabei werden mit betr?gerischen Absichten Mitgliedskonten registriert und damit aus dem Ausland angeblich hochwertige Unterhaltungselektronik-Produkte angeboten, diese dann aber nach Bezahlung nicht geliefert. Sch?tzen Sie sich, indem Sie Artikel die die folgenden Kennzeichen aufweisen, meiden. Es k?nnte sich um einen Online-Betr?ger handeln.

- Der Artikelstandort ist Hongkong oder China und
- das Mitgliedskonto hat 20 oder weniger Bewertungspunkte und
- der angebotene Artikel ist ein relativ hochwertiges Unterhaltungselektronik-Produkt und
- der Artikelzustand ist neu und
- der Artikel wird von einem privaten Verk?ufer angeboten.

Bitte beachten Sie immer beim Kauf von hochwertigen Waren aus dem Ausland grundlegende Sicherheitsvorkehrungen.

So you can do what you think it's necessary ...

Roger