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1980 Breezy, $1590?

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:02 am
by ian
Reassuring words & sounds like conscientious trading policy, plus attractive idea to act as your ?long arm in Japan?. So far, so good. But then we come to the price ? 1984 Orville by Gibbo BIN $1590?? Or from his website you can have a nice 1980 Breezy with bound body, also priced at $1590?? :o ... 11924&rd=1


Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:04 am
by 20 century boy
Yes, Andrew Meschling is famous for his ridiculousely high prices :lol: :lol: :lol:
If he find suckers to buy his stuff what can we say?

Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:30 am
by ian
Is he? Hmm, maybe he should sit down & have a think, perhaps he could become famous for something else lol :lol: !


Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:24 am
by ned
I ran into that here in the US as well. Love Rocks for over $1200 where the owner/shop refused to back off, they sold'em so more power to them.
But at those prices I'm going Gibson or Fender - the whole point of Tokai is better guitar for your money.

20th- your sig is that a Quadrophenia thing.


Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:20 pm
by 20 century boy
ned wrote:I ran into that here in the US as well. Love Rocks for over $1200 where the owner/shop refused to back off, they sold'em so more power to them.
But at those prices I'm going Gibson or Fender - the whole point of Tokai is better guitar for your money.

20th- your sig is that a Quadrophenia thing.

Nope, it's a Paul Weller's quote. but the spirit is quite the same :wink:

You're Just Jealous!

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:46 am
by apmechling
Hey now guys,

These guitars I have are my special guitars. First off, that Tokai Telecaster on my site you are complaining about (pricewise)... what you DON'T see is the mint Tokai hard case, additional documentation including owner's manual and care manual, original white leather Tokai strap, which is very rare, too, plus about 15 original cards that say "Reborn Old" and other manuals and stuff. Oh, and Tokai picks, too, about 20 of them. And also the original cardboard Tokai box the whole thing was packaged in originally.

This stuff, I feel, is worth every penny of the $1,590 I was asking. Try finding a whole package like that with a mint 1-piece body tele like mine elsewhere. 2 months ago I removed it from being sold, as I can't replace something like this. If you've forgotten what it looks like, here it is again:

Now, the Orville by Gibson was a little overpriced, I will agree. It was an amazing solid top with long neck tenon and nice hard case and all, and I did have to pay a lot to get this one when I got it. I ended up trading it for a reasonable price.

What you guys may not realize is that I go up to Tokyo about twice a week and hand-pick the best guitars I can find. I am not forced to buy stuff on eBay from other sellers like most everyone else, so I can get the best of what's available, not stuff people buy to just sell on eBay. Contrary to what most people believe, I am not really a seller as much as a collector. I mean, who else would shell out $5000+ for a Navigator Les Paul, or 2 of them? Certainly not someone trying to make a buck. Hardly a soul outside Japan would ever justify paying more for a knockoff Paul than for a Gibson Historic or some Custom Shop model. But those souls have never had a Navigator N-LP-700LTD in their hands, either.

I could buy the crappy usual eBay stuff all day and offer 200 guitars at a time on eBay and make a killing if I wanted to. Truth is, I won't buy a crappy guitar, nor would I sell someone a crappy guitar. My prices may be high, but you get what you pay for.

Go ahead and check my Navigator, Van Zandt, Seymour Duncan, Greco Zemaitis and Bacchus pricing from my website and compare it to any other price on the internet. These are the most expensive ones I've got and probably the ones that get the most complaints, pricewise. I invite you to find better prices for mint guitars of the likes of what I've got. For your reference, use the model names and numbers:

Navigator N-LP-350LTD, N-LP-380LTD, N-LP-500LTD, N-LP-700LTD,

Bacchus BST-64V, BST-62, BJB-62, BPB-62, BTE-62, BST-57V

Van Zandt STV-R1, STV-R2, STV-70M, STV-70R

Greco GZ-2100WF, GZ-2600IF, GZ-4000DF

Enjoy the research, guys!


Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:53 pm
by CS Jones
I admit to being almost completely in the dark when it comes to knowing which of the older Tokais to aim for (or even the newer ones for that matter) . I've followed ebay's Tokai sales off and on over the last 5 years or so and like I said in another thread... I've been through a spate of bad knock offs.

Can you guys honestly say that some of Tokai's offerings are equal in quality to prime Gibsons? I've been curious about this for years and I envy those of you who have the opportunity to cruise the Japanese aftermarket collecting what appear to you to be the good ones. I'd easily pay the prices that Mr. Mechling is asking but only if the quality was as good as the "build up" (I don't want to say "hype") says it is. This is the part about the whole thing that I don't really trust and is the most difficult thing about putting that much money down on one. I just haven't wanted to be dissappointed so I've just continually backed off from buying one. That's one of the things that would make me go for,say, a "guitargai" sale. The last I heard from him he was willing to let you get a refund after a short period of use and you found that it wasn't what you'd expected. The return offer is somewhat a guarantee for the quality and I personally wouldn't have a problem paying extra for that.
I guess all I'm trying to say is that I'd simply like a good quality LP copy and I've just about given up on the ebay crap shoot so I'd pay a little more for it. I'm excited about the one I bought from Dana at auction and I felt he was honest with his listing so even if it turns out not to be what I expected I'm completely ok with it and I'll just keep looking.

I went through the build up with a Navigator from a good friend of mine about a year ago. I had no idea what a Navigator was at all when I bought it and to this day I don't know the model #. I kept it for about 3 months and maybe played it 10 or 20 times. I was dissappointed with it (in comparison to the decent Gibsons I've been able to get) and sold it at a loss. In fact, I've sold almost every LP copy I've had at a loss. I consider it a learning experience and I've been having fun with it. I would like though, finally, to settle on something that lived up to the build up and I wouldn't, at all, mind paying a little more for it.

Great site by the way.

Clay Jones

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:28 pm
by apmechling
Yeah, Guitargai has a good thing going, too. His prices are about equal to mine in most cases, but he also doesn't buy most of the brands I actually look for, which can be much more expensive. I know he has that money-back guarantee, and that is something that I have as well. I have to say that after selling/arranging purchases of thousands of guitars, that only 3 had ever been returned. That's not bad, and I think speaks for the quality and chatter about these guitars.
Yes, there is always a lot of hype, and I'll even use the word, because yeah, I do get really excited about the models I have and it shows in my descriptions of the guitars I have. Other sellers, and I won't name any names, but, other sellers from Japan and elsewhere have been known to copy my descriptions of my guitars verbatim, and copy my style since they see that it worked in selling guitars... like I said, I don't buy cheapos with the idea of making tons of money - I buy expensive, high-end guitars for myself, and some I have to sell if I get replacements I like better.
But some of those sellers use my words to talk up really cheap guitars that have nothing special about them. And they DO make money, which is why, after I started selling on eBay in 2000, about 6 Japanese sellers popped up, doing what I was doing, but on a much larger scale.

I think you know that not all guitars are created equal and that the brand doesn't always dictate what kind of guitar you'll end up with. Due to this, you might want to check out local sellers that have these guitars. In the US, they do charge a lot more money, as Ned agrees, but you have to think - these people took a big risk with sending their money to Japan to someone they necessarily don't know, and bought a guitar that would be incredibly expensive to return if they wanted to. They shelled out the cash, and when they get the guitar and it turns out to be a winner, I think they have the right to charge what they want for it. It was their risk in the first place, and some people would rather pay more for guitars locally than take a big risk.

I think, Clay, if you want to buy into a nice guitar that suits you, that you give whatever seller you decide to trust, a list of the things you want in your guitar. I work with a guy that has the time to hunt down specific guitars for people that had something particular in mind, color-wise, weigh-wise, neck feel-wise, etc, etc. Usually after a while, he can locate a new or used guitar to fit that person's description. He charges a finder's fee, of course, but it sounds like it would be worth the fee for you to get exactly what you want.

Maybe this summer you can check out my entire collection and see for yourself what all the hype is about, as I may drag my whole 100+ guitar collection to one of the bigger US shows this summer or fall, since I have to move out of here by July. Haven't decided which show would be the one to go to, but I thought about it last year and didn't have the time; this year it is going to happen, a true MIJ showcasing of Japanese guitars, amps, literature, and other interesting stuff I have acquired.

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:40 am
by CS Jones
Hi Andrew,
Very good points you make. I didn't mean to imply that your own descriptions sounded like hype. No, not at all...actually I hadn't even read them when I had posted the above. I have since gone back and read a few and they seem honest and written in good faith. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and knowledge about many of these guitars. That has a value in itself that I'm sure should add to the cost of the items you sell. I would love to talk to you more about it... can I write you at your site address? Maybe you've got something already in your inventory that would work for me or that you could recommend.

To view your collection at a guitar show I would consider a great opportunity. Maybe you can keep us posted if you're able to get that going. I'm not near any really big cities anymore though so my chances are slim I suppose. But post it just in case ... I'll go if I can.
Take care,

MIJ Guitar Show ith the US..?

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:21 am
by apmechling
Yeah, wouldn't it be cool to have a big MIJ guitar show? I doubt Fender, Gibson and other companies would appreciate it, but hey, maybe that'll light a fire under their @sses to get some real well-made US guitars on the market at competitive prices with a vintage appeal.

I often wonder what kind of reception my collection would get with the reps of the other companies next to me. Kinda uncomfortable, I presume!

But just thinking ahead, wouldn't it be cool to get many of the collectors from this site and others together to show off these axes under one roof?

My God, it would create a hysteria - I get SO many emails to me at my site telling me about how the chatter is up about MIJ guitars - it's kind of funny, because to most of us, we've been in the know for a long time, especially Ned and some other guys here, but the MIJ thing is quite new still to most folks.

To see them all under one big roof, would be like an invasion!

Sure, you can write to me at my site at - this is still the only real forum I've found that people even really get into discussing MIJ guitars, not just Tokias.

Kinda funny also, I remember posting a new topic about the need of other MIJ info, not just Tokai, and Ned replied saying I should just start my own site, since his is dedicated to Tokais. Believe me, if I was more saavy with the computer, I definitely WOULD start a forum attached loosely to my site, so as not to force my own collection upon everyone.

But still, it's cool this registry has an "Others" section where people can talk about it, and by the looks of the views and questions, it's going to keep increasing in popularity.

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:48 am
by 20 century boy
Honestly Andrew. I watch carefully all the stuff you put on the net, I know the prices on Yahoo, I know the prices in Ochanomizu. I might not know the places where to buy the best of the MIJ in Tokyo but I can tell that you overprice most of your stuff, and sometimes you missquote what you are selling. The good point is your prices are getting higher but not as fast as the other sellers so you were far far too expensive 3 years ago, now you're just a little more expensive than the other sellers. :D

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:06 am
by ian
Clay ? without any reference to what Andrew is saying here ? I think your previous experience of finding copies inadequate (compared to Gibson) should alert you to take peoples claims with a large pinch of salt.

I don?t know which model you bought from Dana, but now I?ve read more of what you say, sounds to me like you really need to try a good example of an early Tokai Les Paul Reborn LS80 or above (although LS100 & 120 offer no real advantage).

I do understand what you?re saying, because I also work that way ? ie prepared to pay much more for something I really want or something I really believe fits the bill ? but as I just said on another thread it?s important to keep your feet on the ground, otherwise guys tend to get their head in the clouds & end up paying ridiculous sums for things that turn out to be quite useless to them ? avoid that at all costs.

If I were you, with a serious quest comparing Tokai to Gibson, I?d talk to these two guys (try a PM from the appropriate forum), first a guy here named ?Supernout?, and second a guy named ?Loverocker? who used to be a member here but who can now be found on both LPF & 18watt forum ? if you ask them nicely, I think you?ll learn a lot about direct hands-on comparison (Supernout also sells guitars, & could probably find almost any Tokai Les Paul of most any vintage) :-? .


Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:32 am
by CS Jones
You're absolutely correct.
Thanks for the references.