Tokai ES-100 in London

Music stores and pawn shops where Tokai guitars have been spotted for sale. New or used.

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marcusnieman
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Post by marcusnieman » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:50 am

JohnA wrote:
marcusnieman wrote:I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.
Exactly what my response would have been, but you got there first Marcus :wink: Togps Faber kit allows you to clamp the bridge in place, improving sustain and stopping it falling off and denting your lovely flame top, without screwing it all the way down.
+1 on the Faber Kits

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Post by togps » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:13 am

stratman323 wrote:Fret edges on the ES100, in case you still want to see them, Mark.
What are you refering, Mike: fretboard binding or fret edge binding?
Since I guess Villager is meaning fret edge binding = binding over frets
+1 on the Faber Kits
Thanks John and Marcus

Donkey Oaty
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Post by Donkey Oaty » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:08 am

marcusnieman wrote:I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

.
Correct.

It's the way Gibson have set them up from day one, the princible reason is twofold, to stop string breakage on the E and B and avoid putting extra stress on the ABR-1.

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:58 am

marcusnieman wrote:I've always been taught that you want to crank down the tailpiece just far enough so that the strings to NOT rest on the edge of the bridge frame. You should be able to slide a piece of paper between the strings and the bridge frame.

Some people say crank it all the way down regardless of the strings and the bridge. But it puts a hell of a lot of stress on the bridge posts if you do and if your action is fairly high, you can bend the posts. Look at the difference between your two photos.
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:00 pm

togps wrote:
stratman323 wrote:Fret edges on the ES100, in case you still want to see them, Mark.
What are you refering, Mike: fretboard binding or fret edge binding?
Since I guess Villager is meaning fret edge binding = binding over frets
Mark asked for a pic of the fret ends, but I think he just wanted to know if it has fret edge binding. Which it doesn't.

8)

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Post by Donkey Oaty » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:30 pm

stratman323 wrote:
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.
The ES100 is <Vicky mode > well wrong :wink:

Too much pressure on the ABR and the bottom E will end up snapping at the point it touchs the back of the bridge.

You always raise the stop bar ( unless you wrap it over ) so the strings clear the back of the ABR by around 05-1mm ( Rizla paper )



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson- ... eight.html

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7339



Plus Gibson should have a PDF file on setting up the Stopbar and ABR1



Image

marcusnieman
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Post by marcusnieman » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:36 pm

stratman323 wrote:
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.
In principal, yes - assuming that your string height is the same on both guitars. Notice the extreme angle of the stings from the saddle on the ES100 when compared to the ES130. You need to have some tension against the saddle so the the strings don't slip off when picking/strumming hard or doing big bends....I've found that with the stings just clearing the bridge frame is perfect.

All you need to do is raise the tailpiece on both or either sides until the strings just clear and re-tune. That's it - it's an easy adjustment and it doesn't affect the intonation at all.

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:01 am

OK, thanks guys. Well the 100 is going back tomorrow, so I'll leave them to sort that out - that's the way their tech set it up!

Donkey Oaty
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Post by Donkey Oaty » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:59 am

stratman323 wrote: that's the way their tech set it up!
Rather concerning.

That would be one of the first things any tech would learn on day one of a job, set up wrong it can cause some expensive damage ( bending and pulling out the posts for example ).

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Post by Momo » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:13 pm

Glad to see you got it sorted with the shop Mike, a similar thing happend to me a few years ago at a guitar show in Manchester, I bought what I thought was an 80s love rock model, vintage correct headstock shape, tulip truss rod cover, black back plates, felt and played 'vintage' if you know what I mean, then I decided to adjust the truss rod and found it had two extra holes, upon closer examination it turned out to be a korean model made to look like an oldie, but unlike you I didn't get a refund.

As for the tailpeice question, I've always just bolted it down on my es100, I prefer the extra 'fight' in the feel and the sustain, so far I've never had any problems but I do understand the string clearance issues, I think I've just been lucky as I've never had a string break over the bridge but I can see how it could happen, one thing I'm not clear on though is how increasing the break angle of the string coming off the bridge saddles can increase the string pull pressure on the tailpeice posts thus causing damage ? is that the same for the headstock pitch too ? higher end love rocks (ls 80 + above) have an increased headstock pich angle over the ls 60 so does this mean the chances of a headstock break or cracked nut are increased due to the higher pressure of string pull on the higher end models ?

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Post by Momo » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:44 pm

:oops: sorry I mis-read it, the pressure is increased on the bridge post not the tailpeice posts..yup makes sense now, and although I said I'd never had any problems, I'm actually on my second bridge now as the first one bowed in the middle, probably due to me clamping the tailpeice down for years...doh !!! I just never put 2 and 2 together there.

Learn something new everyday

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Post by Ozeshin » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:06 pm

Donkey Oaty wrote:
stratman323 wrote:
So you're saying the 130 is right, and the 100 is wrong? The top string on the 100 is touching the bridge frame.
The ES100 is <Vicky mode > well wrong :wink:

Too much pressure on the ABR and the bottom E will end up snapping at the point it touchs the back of the bridge.

You always raise the stop bar ( unless you wrap it over ) so the strings clear the back of the ABR by around 05-1mm ( Rizla paper )



http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson- ... eight.html

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=7339



Plus Gibson should have a PDF file on setting up the Stopbar and ABR1



Image
OMFG.. :o
I've never known that in all my years of playing...racing home to check the hight of ALL my ABR fitted guitars :oops:

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Post by leadguitar_323 » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:51 pm

Hahaha Oze you DUMB ARSE...... :P

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:26 am

I blame the Internet!! I had two Gibson Les Pauls for 15 years and always screwed the tailpiece right down and nothing ever bent or broke. It's only since I've read how to do it 'properly' that I worry about bending stuff!

The net has a lot to answer for :D

Donkey Oaty
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Post by Donkey Oaty » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:30 am

Ozeshin wrote: OMFG.. :o
I've never known that in all my years of playing...racing home to check the hight of ALL my ABR fitted guitars :oops:
That's understandable from a users perspective, but a trained tech should know better.

The more I think about it, the more I would worry if that tech touched my truss rod ( :o )

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