Rare Burny made by Tokai 1978 Goldtop?!!

Hi guys, this LP just arrived. I picked it up from YJ 2 weeks ago thinking this might be a really early LS80. Pictures were not that great and I noticed this guitar just 1 day before end of auction. Too late to get answers to questions. So I took a chance.
Don?t let my investigative and elaborate nature bother you or prevent you from input ?cause I really like some!

Facts:
Serialno: 8000219; ink stamped on the back of the headstock
Color: Goldtop with dark back
Finish: Medium thick poly (tested in the lower pu cavity)
Weight: 4.6 kg/ 10.1 pounds
Top: 2P 0.25 cm/0.1 inch off center seem solid maple
Back: 2P center seem mahogany
Neck: 2P center seem mahogany
Fingerboard: Brazilian (compared color, pores and smell to my 1979 LS80 & 1981 LS60 which are Indian, my 1993 PRS custom24 which is East Indian and my friend 1981 EGF1200 which is Brazilian. So I?m pretty sure)
FEB: No
Headstock angle: 18 degree
Neck thickness at 1st fret: 2.20 cm/0.87 inch
Neck thickness at 11th fret: 2.40 cm/0.94 inch

Thoughts:
As you can see in the pictures the routing is Tokai and the ink stamped serial is Tokai.
There?s no 1979 Burny/Fernandes catalog and from observations it?s widely accepted that all 1979 Burny?s were made by Tokai. And that the only 1979 Burny model made by Tokai was the FLG60, aka the LS60. All known Burny?s made by Tokai bear a serial number starting with 800, thus made in 1978.
Now something interesting happens; in the 1978 Tokai catalog there?s no goldtop. The Tokai goldtop was first introduced in 1979 and only as a LS80. This is certainly not a LS80 for it has a 2 piece back, no FEB and a poly finish.
Strangely enough it has a 2 piece neck, a very high weight for a Tokai from that period which partly can be explained from the body being a little thicker. Also the routing and neck joint looks a little deeper than normal. It has an 18 degree headstock angle, not 14 degree like the LS60 should have. And then there?s the off center top seem. It all has an experimental feel to it.
From these observations and also looking at the serial number, my provisional conclusion is that this is a very early and rare transitional Tokai made LS60 Goldtop.

Other observations:
-The Burny logo is pearloid but doesn?t feel like the Tokai logo from that period; it has no relief, it?s completely smooth.
-I think these are the original 2 ring tuners but they don?t say Fernandes on the back? The tuner buttons are really shiny pearloid, unlike the more matte greenish ones on my 1979 LS80. Looking at the back of the tuners; these and the LS80 are exactly the same except for one thing (look at the pictures). But they both have the dots in one circle, so seem to come from the same plant; Gotoh?
-The back of the selector switch is capped, never seen that before.
-Bridge and aluminium tailpiece are the same as the ones on my 1979 LS80 and 1981 LS60.
-The PCB board is a little different from the 1979 LS80 and 1981 LS60 (which are the same); this one has LS marked on it and the dark lines are thinner in some places.
Also; these caps say .022K50 where the caps on the Tokai?s say 1H223K.
-The soldering between pots and pcb board seems to be untouched but the pots are not likely to be original; 250K pots on a LP? Volume pots are marked B250K Ω and the tone pots A250K Ω.
-The pups are not original but look like old DiMarzio Superdistorsions. They sure have much more output than standard PAF?s.
-I think the pickguard is non original (too loose around the upper pickup ring and has rounded off edges).
-Original TRC, volume/tone knobs and HSC.

Apart from the weight the guitar plays really great and is acoustically in the same ballpark as my LS80; warm lows, deep & airy mids and smooth sparkling highs. So it must be good woods!

!!ANY INPUT IS WELCOME!!
But what I especially want to know is:
-Do you think this a refinish?
-What pups are this?
-Any thoughts on the pcb board, pots, caps and selector switch
-Do you have a different opinion on model, make?

Thanks is advance,
Jacco

Here are the pics:






















'LS' on the top of the PCB board


on the left side you can see the center seem of the neck starting on the heel


left: Burny tuner, right: 1979 LS80 tuner

The "switch in a can" is correct for Tokai. I have a few guitars with it. The PCB board and components also look Tokai, as well as the shielding paint. There were a few subtle variations of the PCB board.

The bridge ground wire has thick red insulation which I have not seen on a Tokai. The other wire colors look correct for Tokai.

The serial number font is kind of thick and bloated, it looks unfamiliar to me.

Maybe the parts (tuners, electronics, etc) were switched over from a different guitar?

Thanks Cali!
About your 'switch in a can' Tokai's; what is their date?
Have you also seen these pots before?

The serial number font is typical for 1979 Burny's, here's a FLG-60:

I see now those are the same tuners: pearloid double ring, single line, no script

A 1980 LS-60 with ink stamp serial:


This a 1983 LS-200 with ink stamped serial:


All of the guitars made by tokai, all with different font.

The switch is on guitars from 1979 and 1980. There was another switch type Tokai used as well but I'm not in the mood to get out the screwdriver and go digging through guitars

Pot codes I'm really not sure of but the caps are good and everything else is wired the way that Tokai did except for the bridge ground which is normally black and thin wire.

With 250 k pots on the PCB? Admittedly, I have never had my hands on a 1978 or 1979 Tokai. But I'm not familiar with the use of 250 k pots with HB's, just 500 k.

I'm sure there are members with much more experience who could help my understanding.

Interesting angle on sourcing and production.

Mick51 said:

But I'm not familiar with the use of 250 k pots with HB's, just 500 k.

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From what I have been told Gibson used 500k pots until the early 70s, after that 300k pots. They supposedly tried out 100k tone pots in the late 70s. From the early 90s on they use 300k volume pots and 500k audiotaper tone pots. Historics use 500k pots for both volume and tone.

But that doesn't justify the presence of these pots..
I do understand the use 250k over 500k; it will get you more midrange crunch. But also a more dull sounding guitar.

Pups are 70's Super Distortion and/or Dual Sound pickups, bet they go off? :wink:

telenut62 said:

Pups are 70's Super Distortion and/or Dual Sound pickups, bet they go off? :wink:

Click to expand...

Hmmm, no I don't think so, I kinda like them. I think I will change the pots to just under 500K value and see what happens. If it's too bright then put in some 0.033 PIO caps and it will probably be ok!
I have 50s PAF type humbuckers on all of my LP's so this is a welcome change. I am a big fan of Peter Florance Voodoo's (57 or 59). Also extremely good are unpotted Bare Knuckle Mule's.
This Superdistortion in the neck position sounds exactly (!!) like the DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF I have in the neck of my PRS Custom24, except for the output. This was only DiMarzio HB I liked so far.

telenut62 said:

Pups are 70's Super Distortion and/or Dual Sound pickups, bet they go off? :wink:

Click to expand...

Oh, I forgot to ask how I can distinguish a 70 Superdistortion from a later model Superdistortion

70's SD have square tabs, 80's are triangular

telenut62 said:

70's SD have square tabs, 80's are triangular

Click to expand...

Hmmm, my knowledge of the english language ends here I guess. What's a tab?

.......where the mounting screws go into :wink:

ah

Here's an update!

Ok, telenut62 was right, the DiMarzio SDs are out and I have replaced them with my favourite: Peter Florance Voodoo Humbuckers 59 with aged nickel covers (he should change the name, is a bit long..). The SDs have a bit flat response, not dynamic. Airy and loud yes, articulate no.

Then I also replaced the PCB board/250kΩ pots with a 1981 LS60 PCB board & pots. And I replaced the little green ceramic caps with 0.022uF NOS Philips Mustard caps.

I changed tailpiece with a Faber aged aluminium tp with locking studs and the bridge with a Faber aged locking ABR-1 with natural brass saddles.

And last but not least changed the ugly pearloid tuners with DMC tuners which have a greenish/brown colour that matches the golden top very well.

Here's a pic:

It looked good in the first pics. It looks much nicer now it has covered pickups on it. Very nice. 8)

Mike

thanks Mike!

Yeah, that GT looks really good!

And you had a very nice day for the photo too.
If I could just get a few sunny days in a row I'd get some pics of my GT.

Thanks JV!
Yeah, we've had real good weather lately. I have had my LS80 out in the garden all day (trying out some top fading..) for 10 of the last 14 days.

jacco

I was just doing some surfing on this site and noticed this older thread. I think that I have a very similar guitar to your Burny Goldtop.... also direct from Japan.

I was able to get some help from the forum members here when I first got it confirming that it was in fact a Tokai made Burny

The link to the original post is here:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11387&highlight=tokai+made+burny+goldtop

If you follow the link to the pictures there are some detailed photos of all aspects of my guitar which may be of assistance to you.

Jacco,

I just realized that the serial number on our Burny guitars is separated by only 6 digits!!!!

Do you think they were sisters going down the production line in 1978?

Interesting