Burny '61 SG reissue

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hogguitar

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I just won the auction on e-bay for this, and can't wait to get it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7407985795&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
I have a Burny LPC which I really like, so hopefully it's of the same quality.
Does anyone here own one of these?
 
I don't know much about burnys (but I consider myself a bit of an SG fan ;)), but that auction says MIJ but since they do not mention a year in that auction I thought I'd take this chance to ask something. Are the burnys currently made in japan? I see that the current sg page says pickups are FVH-2002, and I see people mentioning VH-1. Is a three screw TRC the same deal as with Tokais as in it equates to MIK? I see the Ravelle JPC has a three screw trc..

I know nothing about Burnys so I am a bit confused.
 
Here's everything you ever wanted to know about Burny's (from orangeguitar.com):


Background of Burny

Both Burny and Fernandes are the same company. Fernandes started off first in the 70's making Fender replicas. The brand Burny was birth later by Fernandes as the division that made Gibson replicas. To date, both Fernandes and Burny are still making guitars just like their Tokai counterparts.

When it began in the 70's, there were no problems with copyright issues. This saga only surfaced a decade later in the mid 80's when Fender and Gibson felt that their empire was threatened. To avoid the copyright war, Fernandes began to make changes to certain parts of their design like truss rod cover, shape etc.


Changes to Fender Copies

These modification taken on by Fernandes extended to both the Strat and Tele copies. After the lawsuit threats emerged, Fernandes most obvious change was to their headstock shapes - it was changed completely. The rare old Fender copies are extremely detailed, though no longer in production, can still be found in the vintage market. These vintage copies were commonly known as the ?Revival? series. This name was given because they were essentially reviving the old classic Fenders. The headstock logo was design such that from a distance it looked just like a vintage Fender. The saddles were stamped, instead of the word "Fender" the "F.S.R.G." alphabets took its place. These alphabets stand for Fernandes Sound and Research Group.


Gibson Copies

For the Burnys, the LP models were given the name ?Super Grade? instead of ?Les Paul.? The wording were crafted to look just the words "Les Paul". If you are not familiar with the "Super Grade" series, you may mistaken the words as "Luper Grade" due to it's attempt to model the words "Les Paul". For the Gibson copies, fortunately the most part of the design stayed the same. E.g., angle ratio between body and neck, curves on the maple top, and even the open book design on the headstock.

The Burny Super Grade Les Paul?s have been reported by many recording and gigging professionals as ?the best? clone of the real classic 50?s and 60?s Les Paul?s. They say the feel is identical and especially enjoy how Burny focused on making really fat necks on their Standards. Some go as far as claiming that these copies matches neck to neck with a vintage Les Paul - which cost around US$30,000.

The Different Burny Series

Burny models that with RLG-XX. The XX were numbers that indicated the guitar series. The bigger number means the better the guitar in terms of sound and finishing qualities. Take the LP Standard copy for example, there are the RLG-45, RLG-55, RLG-70, RLG-90 etc, the best being the "Super Grade" model made in Japan. However, do note that there are models that are made in Korea. I wouldn't fault the Korean version since they are much cheaper in comparison to those made in Japan. However, if you would just compare the 2 makes in terms of quality, the Korean version does not come close to the Japanese version.

There are also the Burny FLG-XX series. These are known to be older versions of Burny - pre RLG era. An estimate timeline of their birth would be early 80s and before.



About Burny and Fernandes pickups

Amongst all the different lawsuit copies, Burny and Fernandes have the best pickups. Fernandes had their L-5000, L-5000 Vintage II, and L-5001 single coil pickups, while the Burny model Les Paul?s got the famous VH-1 pickups, that have extraordinary tone. The only reason why they have come this far in their tone is because of the timeless effort they have put in R&D.


Serialization

The older Fernandes guitars do have serial numbers on occasion, and can be found on the neck plates of the Stratocasters of the Revival series, but otherwise, Burny and Fernandes didn?t often use serial numbers. Dating a Burny or Fernandes can be loosely done by looking at the truss rod cover. The Gibson bell-shaped covers are found on 1970?s to early 1980?s models. The bell-shape cover with thin white band and ridges sticking out from the side are found on mid-1980s to early 1990?s models. The late 90's model to present will have the palace-shape and 3 screws truss rod covers.


Burny Today

As mentioned, Burny is still making these guitars in Japan. However, some of these are manufactured in Korea and China. Most believe that the Korean/China made Burny is identified through a 3 screws truss rod covers. However we have found that new Japanese made Burny comes with 3 screws truss rod covers too. So how do we tell? As far as we have researched, the difference is that the Japanese models have long tennon - this can be seen in the joint construction when you remove the neck pickup.

Between the Korean and China made pieces, many believe the Korean model is slightly above the notch. But this is unproven. The Japanese made pieces are still the models to go for.

The old ?lawsuit? style models are very rare to find nowadays, and are highly collectible. Even in Japan, prices are double of what they were 2 years ago due to collector interest all over the world.

Warning

I have seen on a couple of occasions where some sellers try to modify a Korean version and claim it to be a Japanese model. So if you are buying from the internet, be very careful. Especially when the 2 make can only be differentiated from the truss rod cover it is hard to tell by just photos.



Updated on 18th Feb 2006 on section "Serialization" and "Burny Today". Updates are in italics.
 
Bro, so sorry to deliver potential bad news. But I think that's MIK...

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5739

I contacted this guy and he said he wasn't sure it was MIJ. I told him how to tell by the trussrod cover and he never got back to me. Then he posted more pics of the guitar and did everything he could to not provide a pic of the front of the headstock.

3 trussrod cover screws=MIK, 2 Trussrod cover screws = MIJ...and I told him that. I probably still have the email.

Let us know when you get it...
 
What year is that guitar? I couldn't find that info on the auction.. Unless I'm blind?? :S :S
since japanese fernandes guitars have three screws on the truss rod cover, I dont think that's the method anymore.

Also, from orangeguitar and below:
Burny is still making these guitars in Japan. However, some of these are manufactured in Korea and China. Most believe that the Korean/China made Burny is identified through a 3 screws truss rod covers. However we have found that new Japanese made Burny comes with 3 screws truss rod covers too. So how do we tell? As far as we have researched, the difference is that the Japanese models have long tennon - this can be seen in the joint construction when you remove the neck pickup.
 
Never heard that before. I hope it's correct and this dude didn't get stung.

If that's the case, these Japanese manufacturers sure are making it hard for us to ID guitars.
 
I think that perhaps a reliable way would be to build a list of which model numbers of burny were made where. But of course this relies on sellers being honest with that too. To confirm the pickup could be removed, which really only collector sellers on ebay do, not casual people.
 
thats why we have catalogs. The ones that are MIJ say so. If sellers mentioned model number it would be easy to I.D. them.
 
I should be recieving the guitar Saturday. I'll be sure to check the bottom of the bridge for any MIJ info, although that will only tell me if the bridge is MIJ, not the entire guitar. Does anyone know how to check if the pups are real VH-1s other than by a sticker on the pup ring?
Where would I find a model # on the guitar? Is long neck tenon a sure way to identify MIJ? I know that a majority of Burnys don't have serial #s, so it 's hard to date them that way.

My allegedly early 80's MIJ Burny LP has no model # or serial #, but it does have the long neck tenon and 2 screw truss cover. My 2000 Fernandes Dragonfly Elite has a 3 screw truss rod cover and a serial #, and I'm sure it's MIJ, but what Fernandes/Burny do on thier newer original design guitars may be totally different than the Burny copy guitars.

Anyway, if I can find out for sure that it is MIK, and doesn't have VH-1s, I'll be stopping payment, returning it, and leaving negative feedback and a warning about this seller on this forum.

Before proceeding with this witch hunt however, I'll need positive proof.

Someone find a Burny scholar!

Maybe I'll check with George Gruhn, he's one of the more knowledgeable vintage guitar guys in the US, but I'm not sure how much MIJ lawsuit info he may have.
 
not sure you`ll find model number on the guitar but when it was bought originally, there should have been some tags with that info, unfortunately sellers outside Japan often don`t include or even know the model number.
I just went through all my fernandes catalogs going back 10 years. the ONLY SG copy I found in thw 2002-2003 catalog is the RSG-45, not MIJ and not listed as having VH-1s... supposed to have FVH-2002s. It came in black as well as red and looks exactly like the one in the link...but then again, so do the Gibsons.
So...if the guitar is older than 10 years I can`t help you...if it`s made during the last 10 year period...I`d say unless the p`ups were exchanged, or it`s a model not listed and/or sold outside Japan, it is the RSG-45. I might have a newer catalog somewhere but I usually keep em all together in one place so if anybody here has one, check to see if they made SGs after 2002-2003.
 
guess what...just found my 2003 catalog...it has a Burny RSG-75 model listed with VH-1s and came only in red. It was MIJ.
So thats why model number is so important...it might be a real nice SG with good p`ups or it may be a POS botton feeder... no offence to any owners out there eh... it`s just my opinion. Not sure how rare they are either.
 
So I would guess there was a key model number where all above it were MIJ and below were MIK, which applies to the entire burny range.. If that were the case then there are no burny electric guitars currently being made in japan? I have a feeling it might not be as simple as that though..
 
the way most Japanese builders do it is... the model number indicates the price multiplied in thousands of yen...the RSG-45 retails for 45,000 yen the RLC-100 sells for 100,000 yen a high end model made in Japan...plus the catalogs tell you which are MIJ but they don`t say which are MIK or MIC. Very few Burnys are MIJ these days, just the high end models.
So if a guitar retails for 45,000 yen minus the standard 20% off that, shop mark up is at least 100%, or it was whan I worked retail, so the guitar costs what... a hundred dollars to make? Can`t be done in Japan if your company wants to turn a profit...probably not Korea any more either so that leaves other Asian countries. Not that MICs are crap but they just can`t use the good quality parts on guitars that sell for so little nor can they afford to spend a lot of time on finishing so...but for beginners, todays guitars are miles ahead of what guys had just a few decades ago.
 
In that case I need to get myself one of those catalogs some how then.

Thanks for the info on the models/price thing, I think I saw someone mention that in respect to tokai's on the forum somewhere. I think I read somewhere that Fernandes moved some of their product from Korea to China but keeping the same model names etc, some of the Ravelle models I think that was specifically talking about but probably is the case for other models too.
 
right.....they are MIKs, I read somewhere they have stopped production of the US Ravelle. Basically, in my experience low end priced guitars are not MIJ for the most part.
 
Call off the lynching!

I got my Burny SG this morning, and from all indications it's exactly as advertised, and sounds and plays great.

It has the 2 screw truss rod cover, VH1 stickers on the pup rings, long neck tenon, and MIJ stamped on the nickel bridge and tailpiece bottoms. It is in need of a setup, but the frets are almost like new, neck straight, and no buzzes. When I buy a used guitar, I usually figure I'll have to do a fret level, crown, and dress, but this is good to go. I'm going to make a bone nut for it now, put on some new strings, and set it up. I have 2 customer's guitars to finish first, so I'd better get to it.

I'm happy, and will definately recommend this seller.
 
Great news! Happy for you bro. I had serious doubts because of my interaction with the seller.
 

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