Is It a ST60 or a ST80?

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

Moderators: ian, ned

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Is It a ST60 or a ST80?

Post by MIJvintage » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:33 am

I've read here & there and I still haven't been able to determine if this Tokai is a ST60 or a ST80 model. I know that someone out there with more knowledge than me can make an educated guess. So, what is it experts?

Here's the set of attributes.

2 piece center seam body
Image

steel block w/Final Prospect saddles
Image

U stamped pups
Image

script logo Goldstar
Image

L11578 serial number, 3 color sunburst
Image

So, is it a ST60 or an ST80? I'm sure the U stamped pups are going to be a determining factor but is that the only difference between the ST60 & the ST80?
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3682
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:12 am

pretty sure its a 60..going solely by the pups..if the solder joints look untouched and they are original then i would say 60...

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Post by MIJvintage » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:19 am

Thanks for the clarification Mark :)

I've been over this thing with a fine tooth comb and everything looks untouched under the hood, all virgin solder.

what pups would be on a ST80?
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3682
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:24 am

E series...for early ST80 goldstars I think...


but togps is the expert on those..I am just an amateur..:)

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Post by MIJvintage » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:35 am

thanks again villager; you have confirmed my suspicions, as I had my doubts that this one was a ST80

it would have been much easier if someone had not have taken the model sticker with the number off :lol:

IF I ever sell it, I guess I would label it as a ST60 but have no plans presently to sell; it's one of the best Strats I've ever played :)
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

Peter Mac
Guitar God
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Peter Mac » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:58 am

Hi guys,
this guitar is an ST-50 YSOR. It's the 'U' that gives it away, in that Goldstar sounds had different pickup letters for ST-50's and ST-60's - Springysounds did not.
It has an obvious Alder body, 1963 radius fingerboard and square string tree, but on an ST-60 Goldstar, the pickups are stamped "V'.

regards
Peter mac
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

villager
Guitar God
Posts: 3682
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:24 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere.. France.
Contact:

Post by villager » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:01 am

heh see i knew there was a real expert out there..!!!

thanks peter

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Post by MIJvintage » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:38 am

thanks guys for the plethora of Tokai info; this forum is the place to go for info

I'm really glad that I now have a much better understanding of this animal, even though its value (technically) just dropped, again :lol:

So Peter, do you know what the difference between the U stamped and V stamped pups are? Is it the magnets, windings, any idea why the models ST50 and ST60 would have an original price difference of I suppose 10,000 yen, because of the pups?

This is some very interesting stuff, even if I am losing money :wink:
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

javelin70
Guitar God
Posts: 859
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Sweden

Post by javelin70 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:57 am

Even more confusing is that Goldstar Sound strat specs (from the first year - 1984) say that TST-50 should have "ST Vintage mkII" pickups (stamped VII) (TST-60, ST Vintage pickups, stamped V as Peter Mac mentioned). Many early Goldstars however are equipped with the "U" stamped pickups used for the Springy's. "U" and "VII" pickups are not the same, the "U" pickups have slightly higher DC resistance.

I suspect Tokai continued using the "U" pickups they still had left and then replaced them with the "VII" pickups.

Mike

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Post by MIJvintage » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:51 am

javelin70 wrote:Even more confusing is that Goldstar Sound strat specs (from the first year - 1984) say that TST-50 should have "ST Vintage mkII" pickups (stamped VII) (TST-60, ST Vintage pickups, stamped V as Peter Mac mentioned). Many early Goldstars however are equipped with the "U" stamped pickups used for the Springy's. "U" and "VII" pickups are not the same, the "U" pickups have slightly higher DC resistance.

I suspect Tokai continued using the "U" pickups they still had left and then replaced them with the "VII" pickups.

Mike
I wonder if the combination of the U stamped pups & the L115** serial number means anything as far as the transition time frame from Springy to Goldstar?

This particular Goldstar is probably the best Goldstar I've had as far as overall quality & playability. It's an amazing Strat, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's an early one.
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

Peter Mac
Guitar God
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Peter Mac » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:47 pm

hi guys,
- Mike, that is a great point, considering that Tokai had 2 styles going ( ST for Local market and TST for export market) It could be that there were slight differences in the final build.

In terms of serial numbers, after 1982 they were purely cosmetic. They are designed to reflect the vintage model of Fender they are replicating - not Tokai serialing numbers.
To me, L115** would indicate a guitar made after 1984 if placed in a chronological build order.
Also in the detail of Goldstar the ONLY major difference between the ST-50 and the ST-60 was the pickups.....so spend another 30,000 yen and it will be an ST-70 [ not really - but the theory is somewhat correct]
Also why is it that it can't be a brilliant guitar - as you say the best Goldstar you've ever played- and not be an ST-80??
I have owned and played some real 5H1Tbox 1960 Fenders (worth 40 times as much as the ST-50) which should have been coffee tables.
It's not what brand you play - its how your guitar feels and reponds as you explore her tones...
regards
Peter Mac
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

MIJvintage
Guitar God
Posts: 2984
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Saint Paul, Minnesota USA
Contact:

Post by MIJvintage » Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:53 am

Peter Mac wrote:hi guys,
- Mike, that is a great point, considering that Tokai had 2 styles going ( ST for Local market and TST for export market) It could be that there were slight differences in the final build.

In terms of serial numbers, after 1982 they were purely cosmetic. They are designed to reflect the vintage model of Fender they are replicating - not Tokai serialing numbers.
To me, L115** would indicate a guitar made after 1984 if placed in a chronological build order.
Also in the detail of Goldstar the ONLY major difference between the ST-50 and the ST-60 was the pickups.....so spend another 30,000 yen and it will be an ST-70 [ not really - but the theory is somewhat correct]
Also why is it that it can't be a brilliant guitar - as you say the best Goldstar you've ever played- and not be an ST-80??
I have owned and played some real 5H1Tbox 1960 Fenders (worth 40 times as much as the ST-50) which should have been coffee tables.
It's not what brand you play - its how your guitar feels and reponds as you explore her tones...
regards
Peter Mac
It IS a brilliant Strat, it IS the best Tokai Strat I've ever played, and I was making an honest attempt at locating as much information as possible concerning it, in comparison to other similar models so, as to peg this particular example with a model number, nothing more or less than others do in this forum.................................
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... ij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

Peter Mac
Guitar God
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2001 6:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by Peter Mac » Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:37 pm

Hi MIJ
My comment was more to do with the "i'm losing value" remark.
Personally I'm pleased a forum member is making enquiries about his 'Lucille' to better appreciate the gem he owns.
What I don't want to see is the type of snobbery that exists with other brands ( oh, it's ONLY a 50 series, mine's an 80 series)

I own a 1947 Harley Knucklehead - pretty rare bike. I don't ride with a club, i ride for me. When i stop beside other bikes - regardless of Brand - i always nod to the rider as a show of respect because i don't care what you're riding . to me it's the fact that you ride.

If we wanted to have a Tokai pissing comp i'd fare pretty well also - considering i have owned a 82 TLS-200 and Tokai M2002 prototype but this is not what it is about. How can you lose value when you've found the guitar that completes you.
It was not my intent to be offensive and if i was, i apologise and i say to you Thanks for being a member and sharing your opinions and questions, i look forward to hearing about further Tokais you will purchase and help kepp the legend living

regards
Peter Mac
The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

tokaigeezer
Guitar God
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:19 am
Location: New Mexico

Post by tokaigeezer » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:18 pm

Hear, Hear Peter Mac!

I agree - I have some SS38 and SS40 Silver Stars that are killer, in every regard. Haven't swapped the pickups (they are 25-plus years old) and they are fun to play, even with worn frets. I don't care if I ever see or play an SS80 or higher. I also love my lowly LS50 Reborn Old.

To each his own, I say, but cork-sniffers of every stripe, from vintage wine to curly maple, are indeed tedious, IMO.

Have fun with the ax at hand!

Ducati
Guitar God
Posts: 164
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:17 pm

Post by Ducati » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:52 pm

She's a beauty and I'm jealous! Looking for one just like it...

Post Reply