Newbie questions on late 70's and early 80's

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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bergman
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Newbie questions on late 70's and early 80's

Post by bergman » Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:40 am

hi y'all tokai lovers!! this is one of the best sites i've ever visited thanks to everyone who makes it possible

im buying a tokai oldie and i got some questions, im not sure about buying an ls80 or a ls150, is there noticeable tone difference between two piece and solid tops? what about the pickups? i also want to know the differences between reborn / standard / custom models
i'm mainly looking for the best tone (led zep alike tone) at a nice price and not interested in cool flamed finishes and all that

thanx again

hans-j?rgen
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Re: Newbie questions on late 70's and early 80's

Post by hans-j?rgen » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:35 pm

bergman wrote:im buying a tokai oldie and i got some questions, im not sure about buying an ls80 or a ls150, is there noticeable tone difference between two piece and solid tops?
You probably mean between a veneer and a solid top, right? It's quite unlikely, because usually the veneer is very thin. Furthermore the posts of the ABR-1 style bridge go right through the maple deep into the mahogany back, and they are mainly responsible for transporting the string vibration into the wood. More important for any tone differences will be how many parts the mahogany back has, and how light or heavy it is.
what about the pickups?
In my opinion they should complement the acoustic sound of the guitar, i.e. if it's bright, darker pickups will probably sound better in that guitar.
i also want to know the differences between reborn / standard / custom models
Les Paul Reborn is just the name that Tokai chose for their early Les Paul Standard copies before they were forced to change it to Love Rock. A Gibson Les Paul Custom and its Tokai copy mainly differs in cosmetic aspects like binding on the back of the body and on the headstock as well as gold plated hardware, but sometimes also in different wood like a mahogany top or ebony fretboard.
i'm mainly looking for the best tone (led zep alike tone) at a nice price and not interested in cool flamed finishes and all that
You probably know that Jimmy Page recorded the first album mainly with a Telecaster? ;) One of the main ingredients in his later sound is the middle position of two humbuckers though, but he also used about everything in the studio which he could get his hands on. So it's not easy to generally answer your question without references to specific songs etc.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

luis
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Post by luis » Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:26 pm

About pickups in Tokais or LP style guitars,
Hans are you meaning a light and a heavy LP would "need" different pickups(or different voice pickups)?
Wich would you recomend for a say under 4 kg one(most original '59s are in that range) and which ones for a 4,5 kg(wich would be in a heavy side limit for me).

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Post by hans-j?rgen » Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:45 pm

luis wrote:Hans are you meaning a light and a heavy LP would "need" different pickups(or different voice pickups)?
It depends on your taste and the amp and speakers as well of course, but generally I would not e.g. combine a bright pickup with a bright sounding guitar. I gave some examples in the review of the three LS60s where the Tom Holmes set was perfect in one Love Rock while it was too bright in another, the same with the Tokai '57 PAFs in my LS60.
Wich would you recomend for a say under 4 kg one (most original '59s are in that range) and which ones for a 4,5 kg(wich would be in a heavy side limit for me).
The problem with generalizations always is that real life has enough examples with different results. :roll: So a light guitar is not necessarily bright, but rather loud with an enhanced midrange tone. There are really heavy guitars with hardly any mids at all, so the assumption that a higher weight automatically means fatter or thicker sound isn't true in my opinion.

So if you would be a heavy metal fan, you might actually like that characteristic sound of your "heavy axe" and throw in some active pickups with a rather linear sound and shred away with it... :wink:

But if you have a light one with a natural vocal tone, e.g. with "nasal honk" elements in it without too much highs, I would combine it with a clear sounding "vintage" PAF that enhances these characteristics or at least won't destroy them. By the way, these guitars also sound great with P-90 single coils in my opinion.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

bergman
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re-questioning

Post by bergman » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:08 pm

Hey thanx for the info hans!

sorry, i didnt express my self properly, i was talkin about their own original pick ups...

is there much of a difference between (78 to 80's) ls-80's pickups and higher models' (concerning tone) or not that much for the money?

and as for the reborn i know they used the les paul name before they got sued, but in the 78 catalog there are actually pages with les paul reborns and les paul standards (i think those may have lespaul MODEL instead of REBORN on the headstock, i cant see the letters anyway in the web's pics)
so what is the difference?

PD: i knew he used a tele on the first album until he got his 58 gibson lp for.. 500 $!!!!!!!!! (after he got the holy grail 59,and then the 58 became his "backup" guitar, he also had a three pick up custom black beauty model which i LOVE, and it was stolen, he played a 12 string danelectro, some sg double necks and martin acoustics) he also used it while he was with the yardbirds.
i like teles a lot specially the late fenda John 5 Lowery signature model... SWEEEEEEET

http://pyzeppelin.free.fr/photos/page/jim_yard6.jpg

hans-j?rgen
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Post by hans-j?rgen » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:00 pm

bergman wrote:is there much of a difference between (78 to 80's) ls-80's pickups and higher models' (concerning tone) or not that much for the money?
Well, back in those days it usually meant DiMarzio PAFs in LS100 and LS120 or a Super Distortion in the LS150 bridge position and PAF in the neck versus Gotoh. The top model LS200 usually came with a Seymour Duncan '59 set back then. Are they better than Gotohs? Who knows, opinions about that differ on this forum. ;) I like old DiMarzio PAFs a lot, and I tested them against others in my Love Rocks.
but in the 78 catalog there are actually pages with les paul reborns and les paul standards (i think those may have lespaul MODEL instead of REBORN on the headstock, i cant see the letters anyway in the web's pics)
so what is the difference?
I think there are some older threads here where the different headstock decals are discussed, but I would have to do a search, too. Basically the specs of those guitars didn't change, just the name.

Image

Thanks for the picture, so you know about all that stuff already... ;)
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

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