circuitboard?

Area for Tokai's older than 1985

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villager
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circuitboard?

Post by villager » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:20 pm

which model no's DON'T have the circuitboard ..I have seen LS 60/80 and 100 with it, Ive seen a 100 without ..but that could be a later mod...

ian
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Post by ian » Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:59 am

On older Tokai?s (eg 1978 ? 85ish) the conventional ?wisdom? is that LS80 & below got the circuit-board, whilst LS100 had discreet caps. However, it?s not ?set in stone? & I think all manufacturers deviated from their norm. at various times ? like you, I?ve also seen LS100 with the board, though I don?t know if it was original (if it comes to that, it?s often hard to verify that a claimed ?LS100? or ?LS120? isn?t actually some other model). But I have no reason to believe the board is inferior in any way, & personally I wouldn?t replace original parts on older guitars :-? .

Ian.

villager
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Post by villager » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:00 am

me mackechea's 100 on ebay now has the board...

ian
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Post by ian » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:06 pm

Yes, I know :wink: .

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hans-j?rgen
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Post by hans-j?rgen » Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:35 pm

All of the four old Love Rocks I've tested had the circuit board, also the 1981 LS 120, so I would think that without one was only available as a special order from Tokai or someone has modded it in the meantime.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

ian
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Post by ian » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:14 am

Interesting that a 1981 LS120 has the circuitboard :o ... must be original, can't believe anyone would add the cb. Hans - are you sure it's really a 120, how do you identify the model ... I'm not doubting you, but you & I both know it can be tricky to id these models without stamped model codes ... also, without, checking, I think LS80, LS100 & LS120 were actually all same guitar but just different choice of pups (Gotoh, SD, or Di-Marizio) :-? .

Ian.

hans-j?rgen
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Post by hans-j?rgen » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:23 am

ian wrote:how do you identify the model ... I'm not doubting you, but you & I both know it can be tricky to id these models without stamped model codes
The first owner told me it was one (OK, he lied about the 'SG' pickups, too), I can see a remaining oval '120' from the original sticker on the headstock right beneath the serial number when holding the guitar against the daylight at a certain angle (sorry, no photo of that), and the one-piece body and solid flamed maple top would classify it as a high-price model, too, maybe even the '60 neck profile and lightweight tailpiece, but I don't know enough about these details and how Tokai classified them back then.

Forgot to mention the exact fittings for the neck inlays which hardly ever used filler compared to my LS 60 where you can see much more of this black material between inlay and wood.
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

ian
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Post by ian » Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:00 am

Yes, higher models are identified by slightly better standard of overall finish, most noticeable on those inlays (ie filler etc.). But take a really close look at that top,... we've had a few debates about that, & still not clear if a truly flamed top was actually solid on LS120 ... evidence so far would suggest it's veneer, but can be VERY difficult to spot because (a)veneer is ultra thin, and (b)edge of veneer is smoothed over to blend in at the pup cavities :-? . Anyway ... this is good & useful stuff and helps to give a clearer picture for various Tokai models, particularly early ones :-? .

Ian.

hans-j?rgen
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Post by hans-j?rgen » Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:51 am

ian wrote:But take a really close look at that top,... we've had a few debates about that, & still not clear if a truly flamed top was actually solid on LS120 ... evidence so far would suggest it's veneer, but can be VERY difficult to spot because (a)veneer is ultra thin, and (b)edge of veneer is smoothed over to blend in at the pup cavities :-?
You can bet that I had several long and really close looks at that top from different angles and under different light sources, especially the edge and the visible wood graining in the cavity before I deleted the word "probably" from its description... :roll: As you know I also have a LS 60 with a flamed maple veneer, and that one is clearly recognizable, also because the graining beneath the veneer doesn't correspond to the top (being one solid piece for example).

The LS 120 also shows some nice graining along the strings, i.e. parallel to the neck while its flames are sort of quilted and not matched at all. This is probably not visible in the picture, but the important thing is that this parallel graining is different on both sides of the top. On the right side (having the guitar in front of you) you can follow the stronger grains "into the wood" of the cavity, i.e. they match the top graining while on the left side the top doesn't have parallel grains at that part which also corresponds to the visible cavity wood.

I also wonder why Tokai wouldn't use a perfectly bookmatched flamed maple veneer if they want to sell it at the highest price and rather chose this one which isn't that spectacular compared to other "tiger stripes".
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

ian
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Post by ian » Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:16 am

Ahh, OK? I?ve only just found the photo (in your thread on circuit boards) ? hmm, strange ? well does seem like it?s a solid top from what you say ? & quilt top looks pretty well matched in that photo.

Last week there was an early LS50 on eBay with a solid flamed top (anyone notice that) ? the top was 3-piece & unmatched, but the wood was quite clearly flamed ?it seems that was merely the result of pure chance, ie that guitar just happened to get some flamed wood. Similarly, if you look at 1978-80 LS50 Reborn/Reborn-Old, they often have quite marked quilting, but always a 3-piece top & the pieces are rarely matched in any way.

I wonder if your LS120 just got this top by chance. Or maybe it was an LS150 or LS200 body that was fitted out & sold as LS120 (perhaps because of temporary shortage of LS200 hardware)? If not, then I guess it?s exactly as it appears, ie meaning LS120 typically does have solid flamed/quilted top . But that doesn?t seem right either, because most of the LS120?s I?ve seen have been plain-top (or fairly plain, ie not deliberately made as obvious flamed top), perhaps those were not really LS120 at all (as I said, above ? often difficult to distinguish Love Rock models)? :o .

Ian.

ian
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Post by ian » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:04 am

Here?s that flamed LS50 from eBay, re-listed (presumably didn?t sell last week) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 99377&rd=1. Just for info :-? .

Ian.

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Post by ochay » Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:28 pm

I keep telling you
-LS 120's from 1980 thru 1981 are solid flametops(thats the only one's I've had a chance to get)- I have eight of them and have completely inspected every last inch-no veneer- period and all of them have circuit boards as stock

yep yep yep

I have had a few ls50/60's from '82 that have flametops also the one on ebay now (ls50) was mine-3 piece flametop
Guitar Farmer !

hans-j?rgen
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Post by hans-j?rgen » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:09 pm

You tell 'em, ochay... :wink:
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg"
INDIGO ROCKS "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel"

ochay
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Post by ochay » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:28 am

Geez :lol:
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ian
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Post by ian » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:44 am

Maybe wise not to believe first thing you read on this topic ? I?m mindful of what?s been said here before & by whom (requires careful reading) -

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... sc&start=0

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php ... n&start=60


Ian.

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