can a 1983 ls80 have a 3 piece back?

i have a 1983 tokai L.P.

spec's

18deg. headstock, - fret-edge-binding, - solid 2 pc. maple top with a good amount of flame, ( the top is a solid flame top , no venner, I can follow the flame all the way up to the top of the wood, so yes -it is a solid top, I have a bunch of other mij l.p.'s and they are all have venner's)

all spec's of a ls80, but the back is a 3 piece back ?

In 1983 did they make a ls60 , with fret-edge-binding, and a 18 deg. headstock ?

So here in the u.s.a. a good deal for a 1983 ls60 would be $800, and a ls80 $1100. So if i were to put this on ebay how would i list it , a ls60 or a ls80 ?

Hi Benrod, what pickups are in it? i don't doubt what youare saying but i will say that Ozeshin has a veneer top LS-80 from 1984 and he has had that guitar for a very long time and thought it was a solid flame top as well. The Tokai veneer's are exceptionally thin and with a 2 piece top under it, it can be almost impossible to see. Are you sure it is a 3 piece back as well, mahogany can have some very straight "fault" type lines in it as well sometimes looking like a join. In saying all that, post some pics in detail if you can and show us what you see, and also what pickups are in it and this should help in identifying what model it is....

Mick

benrod said:

i have a 1983 tokai L.P.

spec's

18deg. headstock, - fret-edge-binding, - solid 2 pc. maple top with a good amount of flame, ( the top is a solid flame top , no venner, I can follow the flame all the way up to the top of the wood, so yes -it is a solid top, I have a bunch of other mij l.p.'s and they are all have venner's)

all spec's of a ls80, but the back is a 3 piece back ?

In 1983 did they make a ls60 , with fret-edge-binding, and a 18 deg. headstock ?

So here in the u.s.a. a good deal for a 1983 ls60 would be $800, and a ls80 $1100. So if i were to put this on ebay how would i list it , a ls60 or a ls80 ?

Click to expand...

Hi,
I would not have thought so, I think LS-80 that year would still be 1 piece...but I have seen a 1984 TLS-50 from a collector in Japan that had a 1 piece back!
I think from memory that 1983 was the very last year LS-80 1 piece back and fret binding? not sure totally about that though.

LS-80 was the lowest to have fret binding, but it changed in either 1984 or 1985 to the next highest up....etc etc....?????

edit: TLS-50

regards,
Mick

I have seen LS-80 from that era with 2 piece back as well, as said before the catalogues are more of a guide than a definite and thats what makes it interesting identifying some of these guitars especially if the pickups have been changed out.

Mick

1983 is a year of transition for Tokai, spec have changed so it's possible to have a LS-80 model with multipiece back and sometimes no binding over the frets.
I hope it's a veener top, solid top is reserved only for high-end models (LS-150 and LS-200).

Asked a similar question myself a little while back (over here if it's of any use to you). In that discussion, the specs generally pointed towards an LS80 apart from the fret edge binding, which may once have been present but certainly isn't now. I eventually came to the conclusion that I'll probably never really know for sure which model I've got.

Fret edge binding, 18? headstock and a multi-piece back is even more confusing, however. Is it possible that you've got one of those wrong? Without wanting to suggest that you've done this yourself, it has been known for people to mix up neck binding and fret edge binding. Are you certain that it's an 18? headstock?

So far as Love Rock identification goes, 1983 does seem to be a difficult year?

If you could post a few pics, that would most likely help people come to some sort of consensus.

Here is some info from Japan guys fantastic collection...

1983 LS-60
http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~yjibika/en_1983TokaiLS60.html

1985 TLS-80 (special?)
http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~yjibika/en_1985TokaiLS80.html

1984 TLS-50 (with surprise feature)
http://www.k4.dion.ne.jp/~yjibika/en_1984TokaiLS50.html

These probably don't really help much, but, there are some really good bargains, or suprises is what I am getting at.

And here is a 1983 LS-80 (back to the subject)
http://guitarsjapan.com/1983_Tokai_LS-80_Love_Rock_CHS.html
From Andrew's collection?

regards,
Mick

Hello Benrod,

I currently have a 1983 ls80 and it is definitely a one piece back...the other specs including fret binding and 18 degree headstock as well.The top is a very thin center seamed veneer flame in cherryburst,Lacquer finish.......lower models should be poly ....Brass saddle bridge too

.....maybe you can do a lacquer test in the pup cavity to verify?

Pics would be a big help :wink:

Hi people, thanks for all the info. I will get some photos up soon, but to answer some of your questions, I am not a newbe to m-i-j guitars, I have had close to 60 m-i-j gibson les paul copies, ( burnys' tokai's, greco's, aria's, etc. ) . I am very familiar with how good tokai matches there veeners up with the maple underneeth, ( i know a lot of people have been fooled over the years) but thats not the case here, it is one solid pc of maple, ( all the flame runs through the whole maple top right down to were it meets the mahogany , on each flame i can follow it from top to bottom ). I can tell its a 3 pc mahogany back from looking at the side. I have a 1980 reborn ls80 , that has the same 18 headstock. I did forget to mention,it was refretted, but it did definitely had F-E-B. it still has some of the nib's that have not been sanded off completely, after the refret. ----- so i am thinking its a ls80 with a 3 piece back ? does anybody out there have a 1983 ls60 with a 18 deg. headstock and F-E-B ?

pickups are tokai 57 model p.a.f. .

Personally, I'd love to see some close ups on the aftermath of the fret edge binding. If you can manage it, tidiest and untidiest examples of the removal would be great.

An LS80 with a three-piece back does sound very unusual.

leadguitar_323 said:

I have seen LS-80 from that era with 2 piece back as well, as said before the catalogues are more of a guide than a definite and thats what makes it interesting identifying some of these guitars especially if the pickups have been changed out.

Mick

Click to expand...

Mine has a 2 piece back

le juge said:

1983 is a year of transition for Tokai, spec have changed so it's possible to have a LS-80 model with multipiece back and sometimes no binding over the frets.
I hope it's a veener top, solid top is reserved only for high-end models (LS-150 and LS-200).

Click to expand...

It'll be a veneer for sure...
The only question will be Sycamore or Maple...there are NO '80's LS80 that I've ever seen with a solid top.
And yes...83-84 was the transition year...I've seen identical guitars to mine just one year apart that have fret edge binding...mine doesn't.
Mine has a maple veneer and a 2 piece back.

benrod said:

Hi people, thanks for all the info. I will get some photos up soon, but to answer some of your questions, I am not a newbe to m-i-j guitars, I have had close to 60 m-i-j gibson les paul copies, ( burnys' tokai's, greco's, aria's, etc. ) . I am very familiar with how good tokai matches there veeners up with the maple underneeth, ( i know a lot of people have been fooled over the years) but thats not the case here, it is one solid pc of maple, ( all the flame runs through the whole maple top right down to were it meets the mahogany , on each flame i can follow it from top to bottom ). I can tell its a 3 pc mahogany back from looking at the side. I have a 1980 reborn ls80 , that has the same 18 headstock. I did forget to mention,it was refretted, but it did definitely had F-E-B. it still has some of the nib's that have not been sanded off completely, after the refret. ----- so i am thinking its a ls80 with a 3 piece back ? does anybody out there have a 1983 ls60 with a 18 deg. headstock and F-E-B ?

pickups are tokai 57 model p.a.f. .

Click to expand...

57 PAF's are stock in LS80's of the day...
I find it hard to believe that Tokai would take a step backwards and go from 1 and 2 piece backs on the vast majority of LS80's to a 3 piece back
I've seen 1 and 2 piece but NEVER 3...the bone of contention that we usually strike with Identifying LS80's from 83-84 is mostly to do with FEB but rarely the back.
It's now accepted by 95% of the forums that LS80's from 83-84 CAN have either 1 or 2 piece backs and CAN have FEB or neck binding.
ALL have had the correct 18 degree headstock angle and all have had the 57 PAF.
We've had MANY heated arguments regarding the veneer on Tokai...and I really struggle to agree that it could be a solid top with a 3 piece back...it TOTALLY defeats the purpose and would make it a real bitsa(Mongrel).
Like Mick said...many people have been fooled by the thin veneer.
Not calling you a liar in any way shape or form...just that these transition models prove to be the hardest for us to identify and without detailed pics we can only really state that your guitar SHOULD be a 2 piece back with a center seem veneer....but just to muddy the waters a bit more there ARE LS80's from betweem '79-83 with the occasional solid top...but NEVER 3 piece backs...it's kind of a step backwards in giving a guitar a solid top but a 3 piece back.

In support of that: over here, from a couple of years later, we've got a US catalog indicating that by 1985 solid tops were only found on the ALS200.

Hi GUYS, I am going to make Ozeshin eat his words! " it is a veerner top" IT IS A SOLID TOP ! I have photos , but i dont know how to upload them, can i have someone upload them for me? I can email them. I even sanded down inside the pickup cav. . Its not SUPER heavy on the flames, It would prob. be considered a plain top with some MED. flaming . ------ Anyway all i am trying to find out is , if's its indeed a ls80. One more note, I noticed in the 1983 catalog the ls60 has the NON-covered half white and half black bobbins pickups, i also noticed on mine , it never has pickup covers? I think the ls80 had pickup covers ? so maybe its a ls60 with 18deg headstock , and fret enge binding? ----I DONT KNOW !

Use these guys to host your pics...it's free..
http://imageshack.us/

I ALSO said that from '79-'83 there WERE LS80's with solid tops :roll:
These transitional LS80's are THE hardest model to identify conclusively.

http://img97.imageshack.us/i/p9200156.jpg/ http://img18.imageshack.us/i/p9200093.jpg/ http://img16.imageshack.us/i/p9200101.jpg/ it was hard getting a close up with my camera - " I sanded in the inside" . IT may look like a vernner at first, but if you look closely, and zoom in , you will see its not, like i said the grain goes all the way up the maple and around to the top .

No veneer on that one ....

Mick

So i guess the question is what model ? I say ls80 with a 3 piece back. I cut a piece of cardboard at 14 deg, and 18 deg, and its definitely a 18 deg. headstock.

Trouble is, as Ozeshin said, an LS80 with a three piece back is pretty much a contradiction in terms. More pics would still be helpful. Headstock, fret edges, back of the body, back of the pickups ??everything, really.