Tokai ES155 or Edwards E-SA-125LTS???

Hello there,
I want to buy a premium quality japanese ES335 replica.

As I know, Tokai prices are raised, so ES155 is called ES175 now...it is said Tokai ES models have laminated (ply) top, back and side!!!
And on the other hand there is an Edwards ESP model E-SA-125LTS, which has solid (not laminated!) hard maple top, side and back, mahogany (not maple!) center block, lond neck tenon...eh...and Edwards is the cheaper one...

It is said, solid wood top is the authentic one, and that one has THE sound.
Is solid wood top better really, or it's not an important thing? I don't know, that would be my first semi-hollow body guitar.

Please help me, if you have any experience with these goods.

Thanks a lot. Regards.

Gibson ES-335's are ply. I believe either guitar would be quite serviceable.

The PU and the electronics in the ES155 is better...I can't hear or feel the difference between Honduras mahogany neck vs. the African ones.

Yes, Gibson ES335s are ply, but just in "standard" serie (as I know). Custom shop Gibson ES335 guitars' top and back is made of solid maple. It can't be an accident.
Tokai ES175 has better electronics an PUs, but these things are replaceable on Edwards. On the other hand I can't modify the body of guitar...
Thanks a lot for help, I can choose now.

I was surprised to find out recently that even a Gibson ES175 has a ply top, or laminate as manaufacturers would rather call it.

Mike

Custom Shop Gibson ES-335's are all ply. This has never varied.

ES-336's are carved and solid. This is a different guitar altogether.

Hi guys, i think you'll find that the Edwards 335 guitars are laminated as well, and they {I know this will cause some conjecture} are made in china, if i was after a 335 replica it would definitely be a Tokai 1st and then maybe an Epiphone elitest 2nd.
Cheers Mick

leadguitar_323 said:

Hi guys, i think you'll find that the Edwards 335 guitars are laminated as well, and they {I know this will cause some conjecture} are made in china, if i was after a 335 replica it would definitely be a Tokai 1st and then maybe an Epiphone elitest 2nd.
Cheers Mick

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Hi Mick,

I'm just wondering what you're basing your post on since the Edwards site says they're made from solid top and back? Thanks

Jason

Hi Big Willie, {lucky bugger} :lol: I was told by a friend in japan that they are making the parts in china and assembling them in japan and still calling them MIJ and i assumed that they would be using the laminated bodies as all gibbo 335's are. I have read the website as well but still i'd like to see one in person, i have tried to find out as much info as possible but there's not to much around. There's no reason why they couldn't be solid and i don't mind being corrected if i'm wrong, {as i probably am } . I was under the impression the reason for the laminate wasn't for cost reasons it was because it is a stronger method of construction, Hence my assumption.
cheers Mick

Hi Mick,

I haven't heard that about Edwards. I was under the ..er... understanding that they were 100% made in Japan. You may very well be right though as it seems everyone is building in China these days - even Tokai's high end acoustics are being built in China. That surprised the hell out of me when I was told by Yoshi at Guitar Universe.

As far as getting your hands on one, I was SOOO tempted to pick up a black 138 when I was in Ochanomizu last summer. Very nice looking guitars, but I have an '02 ES-120 at my house in Canada and need another ES like I need another arse.

J.

Hi Willie' Yeah i'm thinking of getting a 335 style guitar too, to break up the LP's. I've always loved the sound of those style of guitar but was always into harder edged rock and it didn't suit the music, but as i grow older and mellower i'm looking for something new. Is the smaller version called the 336, ive seen a couple of pics of a smaller version and it looks great.
Cheers....Mick

when I read on line some months ago that one guy said Edwards were MIC, I asked the staff at the local Rock Inn shop about it...they contacted ESP and were told that was incorrect, they are MIJ...it`s amazing how something gets read on the web and immediately becomes fact. You know that old saying...you can lead a horse to water, but you can`t make him believe Edwards are made in Japan.
Just got this Edwards two weeks ago...they have a solid top and back with laminated sides according to the ESP catalogs I have...unless they are misleading us with those as well. They would not be able to claim they are solid if they were not.

Hi,

first let me say hello to everybody, as I?m new to this forum. This is my first post. I?m 48 years old and playing guitar since I was 14. I?m infected with the japanese GAS virus since a few months - and I?m completely blown away by the quality (especially when comparing with guitars from the big F and G).

I own both, a Tokai ES-135 and an Edwards E-SA-125LTS. There are indeed some differences in my opinion. First let me say that both are incredible guitars, in every aspect. One can?t go wrong with either... Now to the differences:

-the Edwards has a thicker neck (I like the Edwards neck much more)
-the Edwards is heavier (3.85 kg versus 3.5 kg)
-electronics in the Tokai are a tick better (less humming, a "warmer" tone, bridge pickup in the Edwards is a liitle bit "harsh") - but that?s up to personal preferences
-quality of craftsmanship is top-notch on both guitars - I cannot detect a difference
-as far as I can tell, both are made from solid wood, not from ply-wood

If I had to give one away, I think I would keep the Edwards. It "feels" better overall while playing (maybe because of the bigger neck).

I included two photos (hopefully, if the link is working)

Best,
Wolfi

I think its all lost in translation, they are made just as Gibsons are made, all Plywood. The ES155 is a very good replica, and after all isn't that what Gibson Custom shop is now doing? I love my ES155 vin and it is amazing in every way. Is it better than a custom shop Gibson? No, I don't think so. But it is a far better buy and it is pure quality. The neck is thick and it takes getting used to, but it rocks when you play her. The edwards that I have seen are all made in Japan and they are Dam nice, not that far bellow the vaunted ESP Navigator line as far as the actual constuction goes. The woods are different and of course some of the electronics are different. Also the finish. I did'nt care for the pups in my ES155 so I changed them out for some SD 59's, just love it now!

Mark

PM sneaky.. :wink:

MIJ or MIC...as I`ve often said, I am never 100% certain that information I get here is the whole truth or not. When I read on the web a while ago about the China connection I asked and was told MIJ...until there is irrefutable proof of the rumors none of us can be sure. You heard one thing from a Japanese guy I was told another by Japanese shop staff...whatever, I couldn`t be happier with my Edwards...regardless of who is operatng the CNC machine...a Chinese worker or a Japanese worker. I only buy them used and at the prices I pay they are without a doubt the best deal I can get at this time...the best MIJ guitars? No. But the best MIJs cost a lot more...especially now...just a few years ago I could get top of the line MIJs for a fraction of what they cost today.

Hi sneaky, there's also the "lost in translation" factor as well. I don't really care where they are made as long as the quality is there and they play and sound great. I'm sure china will come into the market and shake up prices overseas with well made and well priced guitars, and i think this will be great for most of us.
Cheers Mick

Blueslover1959 said:

Hi,
I own both, a Tokai ES-135 and an Edwards E-SA-125LTS. There are indeed some differences in my opinion. First let me say that both are incredible guitars, in every aspect. One can?t go wrong with either... Now to the differences:

-the Edwards has a thicker neck (I like the Edwards neck much more)

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Can you go into this a little more on the neck size. I really like the neck on my NES 120 but wouldn't be unhappy if it was slightly bigger. Is it deeper back to front, wider, exactly how is it thicker in your opinion?

The Edwards feels thicker in both dimensions, thickness and width. Here are my measurements - but I have to say, that do not have a pro tool to measure the thickness of the neck - so these are approx. values.

First value is Tokai, second is Edwards:


Width
Nut: 4,2 / 4,4 cm
12th fret: 5,2 / 5,3 cm

Thickness (back of neck to fingerboard)
1st fret: 2,1 / 2,2 cm
12th fret: 2,5 / 2,6 cm

The values may not look much of a difference, but the feel is very different. I would say: for small and normal hands, the Tokai is better for fast playing. If you have bigger hands (like me), the Edwards feels more comfortable. But that`s personal prefence.


And I forgot to mention two more differences:

- the Edwards has wider/broader frets
- sustain is slightly longer with the Edwards (I think the higher weight and the thicker neck contributes to this)

leadguitar_323 said:

I'm sure china will come into the market and shake up prices overseas with well made and well priced guitars, and i think this will be great for most of us.

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Perhaps it's started; have you played an Eastman? Hand carved archtop instruments made outside Beijing, and absolutely stunning.