Firebird style PUs

Hi all,

the Tokai FB-53 (set neck Firebird style guitar), which I have much interest in, comes with mini-humbuckers, no exposed pull pieces. Do they make the PUs themselves, or are they OEM? I have heard both.

I have heard the Korean ones come with different electronics, which seem to have mixed reviews.

Anyone compared the Japanese Tokai FB PUs with the original 50's-60's mini-buckers?

If I wanted to replace them, what would be a good choice?

Thanks all. I've owned all different classic guitars from various manufactures over the last 30 years, and I finally want to get the one and only thing I've never had, an FB style! The time is now...

***If only they ALSO made a Non-Reverse body (with Soapbars)! I could get both!! Fell in love with 'birds in the late '70's, never got one back then...

Ain't the Tokai firebird all Korean?

I have a Burny Non-reverse with soapbar (4 firebird: 2 Burny, 2 Greco). They are really, really, really hard to find, only a few made.
But if you can change the mini -H for p-90, it's allready a good start.

TSL said:

the Tokai FB-53 (set neck Firebird style guitar), which I have much interest in, comes with mini-humbuckers, no exposed pull pieces. Do they make the PUs themselves, or are they OEM? I have heard both.

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Tokai uses Gotoh pickups most of the time and doesn't make them themselves, but I don't know where the mini-humbuckers come from.

I have heard the Korean ones come with different electronics, which seem to have mixed reviews.
Anyone compared the Japanese Tokai FB PUs with the original 50's-60's mini-buckers?

Click to expand...

I think the current FB53 comes from Korea, not Japan, like all of the cheaper models with maple necks. I don't remember if there was a MIJ Firebird copy from them in the past though.

If I wanted to replace them, what would be a good choice?

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Tough question, because only a handful are available, as far as I know. Seymour Duncan (even an Antiquity version especially for the Firebird), DiMarzio, Gibson and maybe Kent Armstrong or other smaller manufacturers build them, but I haven't read any reviews or comparisons about them. For a first orientation you might want to look up the Harmony Central pickup reviews. And there's a fan site about the Firebird, too, maybe he has more info about the original special mini-humbuckers (very high resistance around 20 kOhm, I think):

http://www.stevemoore.addr.com/hotnews.html

My usual recommendation when it comes to pups is Tim from Bareknuckle!

I don't actually know if they make those though!!

Try www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk , email them or post something on the forum over there!

hans-j?rgen said:

I think the current FB53 comes from Korea, not Japan, like all of the cheaper models with maple necks. I don't remember if there was a MIJ Firebird copy from them in the past though.

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I think Tokai never made MIJ firebird. Or if, it's very shortly and not massiv production.

Seymour Duncan makes a firebird mini-H in their anti-hiquity line.

Tim @ Bare Knuckle Pickups has done a few rewinds for me in the past with quality results.

Why don't you email him and ask if he would rewind your existing pickups ?

I was certain I had seen MIJ advertised new Firebirds. Perhaps I am wrong, or stumbled on a very old webpage. I'll look again...

It does seem the Korean made FB-4? model is set neck, but then there are others that are bolt on. I thought the FB-53 was MIJ, and the 45 (or 43, whatever the number is) with the bolt on was also MIJ, but the Korean one with the same model number is set neck.

I do find the information on the web extremely confusing as to models numbers and details. Also, in contacting the Japanese stores, the language barrier does get in the way a bit, even though Ishibashi do respond in English.

Thanks for the replies everyone, I'll research more...

I believe- to make it simple- that, recently, everything under XX-65 is MIK.

That makes sense. Thank you.

TSL said:

It does seem the Korean made FB-4? model is set neck, but then there are others that are bolt on. I thought the FB-53 was MIJ, and the 45 (or 43, whatever the number is) with the bolt on was also MIJ, but the Korean one with the same model number is set neck.

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In the new catalog for the domestic Japanese market it's clear that the FB53 has a set maple neck and alder body etc., and the FB45 has the same specs except for the bolt-on neck. So none of them have the original neck-through design of the early Gibson Firebirds. Furthermore both versions have the Nashville style bridge with extra bushings which all indicates a MIK model.

Don't forget that the Firebird (and LP Deluxe) mini humbuckers were fitted into P-90 rout's, and the pickup surrounds were actually P-90 covers.

In the light of the above statement... GET SOME P-90's!!!

chrisheyes said:

Tim @ Bare Knuckle Pickups has done a few rewinds for me in the past with quality results.

Why don't you email him and ask if he would rewind your existing pickups ?

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Good idea.

That would be my first move for certain!

Clearly I have alot to learn about the subtle differences between the Korean and Japanese guitars. I have played both Korean AND japanese Tokais recently while in the UK, and found the MIJ better, absolutely, but most of the MIK guitars I played were about on par w/ modern Nashville "G"'s. Epis have yet to impress me, even at thier price point.
VERY, VERY, VERY happy to hear P90s fit in a mini HB slot!!! I love P90s, and am lukewarm about minis.

It is too bad you can't get a neck through 'Bird anywhere but from the original manufacturer, especially since thier quality is hit or miss these days (IMO), and the prices are silly, even if you have the extra money. That last comment comes from someone who has spendt a GREAT deal of money on "real" brand guitars. I used to think a guitar not made in the USA wasn't worth owning, so I would find a way (always legal) to pay whatever it cost. I now know better. Looking forward to a larger collection (wife probably isn't), and equal or better instruments to what I already have!

TSL said:

VERY, VERY, VERY happy to hear P90s fit in a mini HB slot!!! I love P90s, and am lukewarm about minis.

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I like P90s, too, but never have seen or heard anyone with a Firebird use them. The typical Firebird sound I know (Sonny Landreth, Warren Haynes, Johnny Winter) is more of a humbucker type, but it might also work with P90s. By the way, did you play that Tokai Firebird already and decided that the stock pickups don't cut it?

It is too bad you can't get a neck through 'Bird anywhere but from the original manufacturer, especially since thier quality is hit or miss these days (IMO), and the prices are silly, even if you have the extra money.

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I'm not sure if Gibson builds them neck-through now (perhaps in the Custom Shop?), but they'll probably cost a lot of money if they do.

The original non-reverse Birds DID have P90s! +P90s just have a real bite and attck that I think of when I think the look of a Bird...

Until I play the mini PUs thru my own amp at a gig, the jury will be out. I did play the Korean Tokai Bird, and found the detail in finish, paint, and frets, and fretboard wood work was outstanding. Better then the $1200 Gibs I've played. I didn't plug it in in the store, but quite liked the sound acoustically, always a good sign. When I bought My Gib V, I played over 1/2 dozen intown, and decided on the one I have ny the sound WITHOUT an amp. Bought it, threw the PUs in the garbage. Didn't want ANYONE to play those ceramic humbuckers. I contributed to tone in the world by putting them in the landfill. They are horrible!

The $2000 Gib Birds (Vll?) are still neck through, or at least patially. The Historics are as well. To much money for not enough hand finishing IMO.

The Trev Wilkinson designed (and Tokai built!) Fret King range of guitars FIrebird-esque model, the Esprit I think it's called, comes loaded with P-90's.

I know I've seen some non-reverse (? I think, the one's that are the wrong way round for a Firebird?) guitars with P-90's in, and let's face it, changing pickups is not exactly hard (unless of course you want to put standard sized humbuckers in there, in that case, it's a little bit more difficult... but I digress... ).