ES question

You guys have me GASing real bad for a Tokai ES guitar. I have been looking around here in Tokyo without much luck, and I have a question maybe someone here can answer. I originally wanted the ES-120 because it seems to be the closest to a '59 335 (light, long pickguard, dot neck, chunky neck profile), but all I seem to be finding here are other models, like ES-100, 130, 155, and 185. Can anyone tell me which, if any, of these other models would get me close to the '59 335 type guitar? Or should I just hold out until I can find a 120? Thanks in advance for any advice on this.

Bill

Welcome to the forum!

As far as my experience with Tokais goes, the higher the better.Tokai range begins with a good model(lowest japanese model-I haven't deal with koreans anytime) to excellent(highest). I have tried and owned an ES120 and it's a good guitar in a profesional level.Now Tokai has launch more highest models as ES155 and ES185(only seen at japanese musicstores you have acces).I'm aware about a ES420S(Solid top) or ES320(in UK) flamed top wich was fantastic but not my taste as I dn't regard a solid top ina n 335(and I own a Heritage Eagle TDC covering that type of sound).Hans Jurgen has shown new Pacifix (ES230 or 290 don't reacall well)models Tokai made for Musicland stores if you have the money I would junp on these .....One thing I love in Tokai is the neck(fat-not so fat as ES70/150 but fatter than LS80/320).I had a '92 Orville by Gibson 335 beautifull made but with athin neck I did not like too much.....

The 130 is the latest version of the 120.

The number reflects list price, and list prices have gone up - it's exactly the same guitar.

If you can find an early 80's ES100, your search is over.

Thanks to everyone for the replies. My primary concern is the neck. I have a '95 Gibson 335 that sounds really good, but I hate the neck. If the higher numbered Tokai models are essentially the same guitars as the 120, just better quality, then I'll check out the 155 and 185.

The guys who run Pacifix are friends of mine, so I've asked them for information on the models they are selling now. If they turn out to be what I'm after (fat neck, light weight, dot neck), then maybe I'll try to talk them into giving me a deal on one of those.

In any case, I appreciate the replies, and also the commaraderie here in this forum. I've played Gibson's (and complained about them) for many years, so it will be interesting to try some Tokai's. Thanks for the inspiration.

Bill

One more question. With the Gibson guitars, generally speaking, the dot necks are chubbier and the block necks have the 60's slim taper. I know that's not always true, but with the new reissues that is sometimes the case (I'm thinking primarily of the new Export models). So the question is, would the difference between a 185 block neck and a 185 dot neck be in the shape of the neck, or just the position markers?

Thanks again.

Bill

FordFanJpn said:

So the question is, would the difference between a 185 block neck and a 185 dot neck be in the shape of the neck, or just the position markers?

Click to expand...

Hi Bill, welcome to the forum! The only Tokai ES copy with block inlays and short pickguard is the brand new ES 135, as far as I know (except some fakes from China). Since nobody has tested it yet, we don't know about the neck profile, but my guess is that Tokai rather stayed with their usual shape which is on the "fatter" side. By the way, if you know Pacifix/Musicland Key, this page should be interesting for you:

http://www.musicland.co.jp/shibuya/tokai_selection/index.html

That model number for the block inlay model must be wrong, it's an ES135 according to the new catalog, the ES130 would be the normal version with dot inlays, long pickguard and flamed maple veneer on top, sides and back (formerly the ES120).

The really expensive new model would be the ES260 which I have seen on the Shimamura site a few days ago:

http://www.shimamura.co.jp/store/catalog/01_st_electric/01_eg/10_etc/tokai_index.html

It has a Honduras mahogany neck, Jacaranda fingerboard and JM Rolph PAFs, as far as I've understood it.

I understand why you don't like Gibbos 335 reissue necks.Tokai neck feels better and the frets are well instaled, you you can run your hand across the finguerboard easily.I had the same "wrong" feel with a R6 Historic,I felt Tokai neck more comfortable and easy to play......
If you finally get one of those Pacifix series please write a review for us if possible....

I have an ES100 and I really don't thisnk the neck is "Fat" at all. I find it to be quite slim and soooooo nice. Only my Eggle has a slimmer neck than anything I have played.

luis said:

I understand why you don't like Gibbos 335 reissue necks.Tokai neck feels better and the frets are well instaled, you you can run your hand across the finguerboard easily.I had the same "wrong" feel with a R6 Historic,I felt Tokai neck more comfortable and easy to play......
If you finally get one of those Pacifix series please write a review for us if possible....

Click to expand...

I do have a couple Gibson reissues, a 335 and a Historic R9 (aged by Tom Murphy), but I really don't like Gibson's fretwork.

I have talked to my friends at Pacifix and asked them to let me check out the Pacifix series Tokai's. If they agree, I will go and try them out and then post a review here. In the meantime, here is a picture I took of the guitars at the Musical Instrument show in Yokohama last year.

http://gridstopper.mm.st/Pacifix_Tokai.JPG

The file is pretty big, but hopefully you can see some of the information posted next to each guitar. If I have time later, I'll try to sharpen the picture up a bit.

Bill

I talked to one of my friends at Pacifix yesterday, and he said that all of the first batch of guitars that they had made by Tokai have been sold (or distributed to stores) already. He promised to let me know if they get more in so I can check them out. I am interested in getting one of the 335 type guitars. If and when I get a chance to try those guitars out, I'll be sure to post a review here.

Bill

it's not true that no one in the forum has tested out a 135 with block inlays, at least one user has one already... so we can find out what the neck profile on these is.

I am not a profi in neck profiles but for me it don?t feel thin it?s more chunky.

Click to expand...

check the link:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150&highlight=135

bruno said:

it's not true that no one in the forum has tested out a 135 with block inlays, at least one user has one already... so we can find out what the neck profile on these is.

I am not a profi in neck profiles but for me it don?t feel thin it?s more chunky.

Click to expand...

check the link:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150&highlight=135

Click to expand...

Thanks. I did see that, but I was hoping for a more direct comparison to the 60's slim profile and the '59 profile. I gather from the above post that it may be somewhere in between. But that doesn't really tell me much.

Bill

I've only tried one ES model from Tokai(ES120) so I cannot help you,but just for information I can tell you how Tokai ES120 and Orville by Gibson ES335('92) can differ.They both have great fit and finish,but Orville neck was very thin(too much for my taste so I sold it) whereas Tokai one was fatter which I prefer.I had tried a recent Ibanez John Scoffield some time before I got the Tokai and I found some similarities in fell in both necks...... I would like to get higher ES models to play(I'm sure they can be really good if I aply my last experiment as far as the higher on Tokai the better) but my funds are limited again.

Hi Bill,

I?m the guy with the ES 135 TB with block inlays. The only problem is, I never ever played a Gibs... so I cannot compare these neck profiles. For me in neck profiles are only ways - it fits or not. If I can help you with some more pictures or some neck sizes let me know. I can meassure out some details for you.

Dietmar

see everything can be figured out quite quickly...

actually I would be interested in some of those measurements myself, since the es-155 and 135 are also on my next guitar list :wink:

cheers

If it helps, the measurements I have on my ES-120 from 2004 read like this (measured with digital calipers):

Neck width at first fret:

1.674"
42.53 mm

Neck width at 12th fret:

2.044"
51.92 mm

Neck thickness at 1st fret: (Measured from bottom of neck to bottom of fret)

0.889"
22.58 mm

Neck thickness at 12th fret:

1.022"
25.94 mm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By comparison other guitars in my collection measure like this:

1976 Ibanez 2457 (ES-345 copy)
----------------------------------------
Neck width at 1st and 12th fret:

1.732" 2.098"
44.01 mm 53.29 mm

Neck thickness at 1st and 12th fret:

0.830" 0.910"
21.09 mm 23.12 mm


Epiphone Dot from 1997:

Neck width at 1st and 12th fret:

1.751" 2.084"
44.49 mm 52.93 mm

Neck thickness at 1st and 12th fret:

0.800" 0.890"
20.38 mm 22.60 mm

Greco EGC600 Mint Collection Les Paul Custom:
--------------------------------------------------------
Neck width at 1st and 12th fret:

1.752" 2.076"
44.51 mm 52.73 mm

Neck thickness at 1st and 12th fret:

0.859 " 1.050"
21.83 mm 26.69 mm



Might be useful to someone! Sorry to bore ya if they aren't! Of all the necks, I love the Epiphone and the Greco best.

Andy.

Hi,
here are the sizes of the ES 135 with block inlays ( The guitar label says ES 130 because of the fact that at that time they increased the price and changed the model nummers. Exactly its a 2005 ES 130 model / and(or) 2006 ES 135 model )

Neck width at first fret:
1,681 " = 42,7 mm
Neck width at 12th fret:
2,047 " = 52,0 mm
Neck thickness at first fret: ( bottom of neck to bottom of fret )
0,844 " = 21,45 mm
Neck tickness at 12th fret:
1,024 " = 26,0 mm

It would be nice if somebody could tell me the difference between the tokai and the 60 and 59 gibson necks.

what's the difference except the pups, price and bumblebees?

d.skorpio said:

Hi,
here are the sizes of the ES 135 with block inlays ( The guitar label says ES 130 because of the fact that at that time they increased the price and changed the model nummers. Exactly its a 2005 ES 130 model / and(or) 2006 ES 135 model )

Neck width at first fret:
1,681 " = 42,7 mm
Neck width at 12th fret:
2,047 " = 52,0 mm
Neck thickness at first fret: ( bottom of neck to bottom of fret )
0,844 " = 21,45 mm
Neck tickness at 12th fret:
1,024 " = 26,0 mm

It would be nice if somebody could tell me the difference between the tokai and the 60 and 59 gibson necks.

Click to expand...

Here are some measurements from my '59 ES-345.

Nut width: 42mm
Neck width at body joint: 55.5mm
Neck thickness 1st fret: 22.3
Neck thickness 11th fret: 24.6
Weight: 3.4kg

Bill