New guy has WAY too many questions.

Hi all. Wonderful resource you have here. I was recently exposed to the Japanese guitar underground after recommendations from a local music store employee. I was complaining about the lacklustre sound, sustain and ugly headstock of the Epiphone les pauls I was trying out in-store. I own a heavily modified '81 Gibson Les Paul Standard and it is my baby. I'd love another Gibson Les Paul, but am disgusted by their high price point (thus the trying out Epiphones). So, I was led here.

I have a friend who lives in Japan so he is searching for a well priced japanese Tokai, Greco or Orville for me. Even with the exorbitant shipping fee to Canada I can hopefully get something nice for less than the cost of an Epiphone. My friend knows nothing about guitars though so it's been a bit of a challenge for both of us thus far.

Onto my questions.

1st, what in god's name is a Long Tenon neck? Why is it better than a short tenon neck? Why have I played guitar for 20 years, owned a Gibson for 10 and have never heard of a tenon before now?
Is it the end of the neck that attaches to the body?

My next questions revolve around Korean made Tokais.

Are the maple tops on the Korean Love Rocks a veneer or a real cap? If there is a thin flame or quilted veneer and then a cap of regular maple under it would that sound much different from a solid maple cap? The Epi's I tried all had a veneer and no cap from what I could tell and were missing the... snap that my Gibson has. I have a Korean Dean Evo Special that has a real maple cap and it has the appropriate brightness.

I have no fear of made in Korea instruments. I'm seeking Japanese Les Pauls strictly because I was so disappointed in the Epi les pauls. I own 3 Korean guitars, the aforementioned Dean, a Madeira (Guild's epiphone) acoustic/electric, and a brand new Squier Master Series Chambered Tele. The Master series Squier was better built and sounder nicer to my ears than Fender tele's twice the price. Maybe it's just this Master series line but Squier seems to be a much better brand for the money than Epiphone.

Next, what can anyone tell me about the Korean Tokai PRS styled guitars? First, do they make a Japanese equivalent? JSD's guitar shack has a PRS style model on their web site that makes me so horny I want to print off the picture and go hide in the bathroom. Are they alder or mahogany bodies? Is the top a veneer and if so does it have a real cap underneath? I don't know if it's the lack of an archtop but the PRS SE series underwhelmed me. It just didn't feel quite right, yet i love playing real PRS guitars. Can anyone comment on the feel while playing vs a real PRS? Are the Korean Tokais using the same CNC machines as PRS?

Man, this is a ludicrous amount of questions. I better stop here.

In reference to PRS vs Tokai, I saved this from a post a good while ago.

"I took one of our TOKAI NLP-40's to one of top selling PRS stores in the USA , so the owner & I could compare the two models. I'm not that familiar with PRS except for the fact that they are beautiful, expensive & well made. The closest PRS model to the TOKAI was the McCarty model:

Our comparison model was a KOREAN madeTOKAI NLP-40 was a "Tigers Eye" mapleon the Bottom)

Fit & finish on a 2500.00 PRS guitar is what you expect...stunning! Bob (the PRS dealer) & I were very pleased & impressed with the fit & finish of the TOKAI as well. The Tokai's fit & finish were exceptional..even down to the bird inlays.




We plugged them into an Orange amp stack and traded licks for about 10 minutes or so and we were equally impressed with the meaty sound. I think if the Tokai had a better set of strings on it....it would have completed the sound.
Honestly....If I had 2500.00 to blow......I'd get the PRS because it is one well made instrument (not knocking the Tokai by any means) but if I wanted the look & sound and still be able to pay the bills without worry and without the wife getting mad & the kid going without braces....I'd definately recommend the tokai for a quarter of the price. It is at least a bridge to the real thing adn its depreciation is much less. I'd like to think of the Tokai version much like the Japanese fenders/Tokai Fenders or the Love Rocks to the Les Pauls. The tokai is a contender...especially with the current U.S. job market these days.

You can see the obvious finish differences and the thicker bridge on the PRS as compared to the Tokai. According to Bob....the blue finish is very very rare in PRS's. "

Spleen said:

1st, what in god's name is a Long Tenon neck?....
Is it the end of the neck that attaches to the body?

Click to expand...

Yes, long tenon just mean that it goes deeper into the body. Its supposed to be better but I think for %98 of players it doesn't really mater or wouldn't make a difference, it just sounds good in the specs.

Spleen said:

Are the maple tops on the Korean Love Rocks a veneer or a real cap? If there is a thin flame or quilted veneer and then a cap of regular maple under it would that sound much different from a solid maple cap?

Click to expand...

Pretty much all Tokais have a veneered top except the higher end Japanese models. The Korean made model do have a maple cap under the veneer and again I don't believe it make a heck of a lot of difference in tone but that battle will go on forever.

Spleen said:

Are they alder or mahogany bodies? Is the top a veneer and if so does it have a real cap underneath?

Click to expand...

As listed on the site they are mahogany and they also have a veneered top with maple cap. They are a very nice guitar, great looking and great players.

Thank you so much for the prompt and informative replies. If anyone else has some info I'd love to hear it as well.

I have a serious guitar buying fixation at the moment, even though I bought the tele less than a month ago and it's great. Heh, maybe I can sell something around here to justify to my wife my purchasing that PRS40 from JSD.

To expand on the tenon point - yes, it's just the bit of the neck that extends into the body. There are three types: short, medium and long.

Long extends deepest into the body, right under the neck pickup. It's how the 50's les pauls were made and allows for good neck/body contact and excellent vibration transfer. This improves the overall sound.

Short are what are found in modern non-custom shop gibsons. They don't extend to the end of the neck. Basically they are a labour-saving, cost-cutting measure with no tonal benefit. There is a lot of room for error in fitting these, but also a huge potential for getting the neck angle all messed up and that DOES happen. Neck to body contact is frankly shocking - only the SIDES of the tenon are in contact with the body.

Medium are what you get on the standard japanese les pauls. They extend to the end of the neck but not under the neck pickup. They're easier to fit than long tenons but they have 99% of the tonal advantages and little room for error in fitting.

Short tenons have no right to exist with today's manufaturing methods, and with MIJ les pauls doing it better at half the price.

Learn something new everyday as they say.

What's the tenon length on a Japanese Tokai Love Rock LS70F, short, medium or long?

I did see the line of "Medium are what you get on the standard japanese les pauls.", but it don't hurt to double check.

http://www.tokaiforum.com/search.php

Midnight said:

I did see the line of "Medium are what you get on the standard japanese les pauls.", but it don't hurt to double check.

Click to expand...

ls70 = Medium.

The ls120, 150 and 320 are the only models with the long version. The ls200 is medium as well.

hans-j?rgen said:

http://www.tokaiforum.com/search.php

Click to expand...

Heh, maybe i should have titled my thread "New guy is too dumb to use the Search function". I actually did search for some of my answers but either saw nothing that answered (tenons) or contradictory info (Korean Tokais). My search terms may have been poor however.

Probably "long tenon" and/or "deep joint" would have you shown the relevant threads or postings. You have to click on the option to search for all terms though, otherwise you'll get too many results, and either choose "show results as posts" or "...as threads" (default) which sometimes makes it harder to find the related postings especially in longer threads (just crawled through such monster threads the whole day and need some sleep now).

I've answered the neck tenon question several times in the last weeks, so you might also combine the search with my user name. And maybe I should just "shut up and play my guitar" instead of replying in these threads... :roll: Welcome to the forum to you, too! :wink: