Gibson LP vs Tokai Love Rock

Hey, I'm new here.
And I'm fairly new to guitars.

Can anyone tell me how the Love Rock compares to a Gibson Les Paul Standard?

what are the differences?

What Tokai model has the 60'ies thin neck?
And if I put on Humbuckers and new wiring on a Tokai. Does it improve the sound?

there isn't any Tokai out there with the 60s slim neck. If that's what you want then you should look for either the '90 Burny or the one and only 80 Greco EG-800 and up...

Japanese LP are pretty well built due to their work ethic...

They compare well to the Les Paul Standard. Build quality on both is excellent. Some differences:

• The mid-end Tokais have a natural light-weight two piece mahogany body with two piece maple cap and sometimes a flame veneer, the Gibsons have a weight-relieved one- or two-piece mahogany back and a two piece figured maple cap.
  
• Tokais have a longer neck tenon and necks seem to be fitted tighter on the Tokais than on the Les Paul Standards. This is supposedly a fairly 'big deal'
  
• Gibsons generally have a nitrocellulose finish, whereas Tokais have a poly finish
  
• The Burstbucker pickups on current Les Paul Standards are nicer sounding to me than the Gotohs on most Tokais.
  
• Gibson has a choice of neck profile, Tokai hasn't. It seems to me the Tokai is a little thinner than the Gibson 50s neck, but definitely thicker than the 60s neck.
  
• A nice new Tokai LS75-85Q will set you back between $600-800, a new LP Standard about twice as much.

All in all, I'd say they are about equal. Both guitars have some strong and weaker points. I bought a Tokai from Japan a year and a half ago because I couldn't justify paying four times as much for a Les Paul Standard (Gibson prices are terrible in Europe). I haven't regretted it for a minute and couldn't be happier. I like the feel of the Tokai even more than most Gibsons I've tried.

I have both a Gibson LP Standard 2003 and a Tokai LS75VF 2003. I have to say I am very happy with both. I can only tell you what I think in relation to the 2 guitars I have and other may well disagree with what I say. What I have noticed is:

1. The fretboard on the Tokai is like the LP of rosewood but it is a better cut

2. The stock pickups as Arthur says in the Tokai were not up to much and indeed have been changed on mine to a Seymour Duncan 59 (neck) and a 20 year old Gotoh PAF (bridge).

3. The build quality of both is very good and I cannot fault either of them.

4. I find I can get better variety of sound on the LP - I think this could be cured on the Tokai by changing the electric circuit, caps and pots as a lot of people seem to do.

5. Having said that I love the feel of the Tokai the neck profile for me is slightly more rounded / chunkier than the LP 50s neck.

6. The hardware - bridge and tuners are great on both and have never given any trouble.

I would think that if it came down to only money - euro for euro / pound for pound / dollar for dollar the Tokai is very good value. Having said that I still love having the LP and would never sell it. If you are fixed on getting the Gibson brand and cannot stretch to a new LP you can always try and get one second-hand.

I hope this helps.

Al

Dublin, Ireland

Hi Teddy ? I think the above posts nailed it, & I can?t really add more. There?s a couple of current threads on the Les Paul Forum where they?re comparing Tokai to Gibson, & listing all the numerous QC issues which seem to plague Gibson, so you might find that interesting. Only really slim neck is on Gibson LP ?Classic-1960? (Standard offers choice, either fat-ish, or thin-ish) ? personally I didn?t like the pups in the Classic (seemed bright & sharp), whereas I do like the early Gotoh humbuckers in older Tokais. New or used Classic costs around $1400, whereas new/used Tokai around $600 ? pay more as you move up either range. 2cents :-? .

Ian.

gaijin said:

there isn't any Tokai out there with the 60s slim neck. If that's what you want then you should look for either the '90 Burny or the one and only 80 Greco EG-800 and up...

Click to expand...

Sorry for bumping up an old thread (was searching for info on Gotoh pickups ), but I have to correct this remark, because my LS 120 from 1981 definitely has the thin '60 neck, and it plays and sounds awesome (that honk tone all over the place).

My '84 LS60 also has a very thin neck. I've owned it and loved it for 16 years, but recently bought a Gibson Historic '59 Les Paul, which I play alot, if only just to justify the price, which was over five times what the Tokai goes for. To quickly compare the two:

The quality control on the Tokai is flawless, as opposed to the Gibson which really had some shoddy workmanship for a high end guitar. The LR, weighing in at only 7.6 lbs., came with a bone nut and an absolutely gorgeous dark rosewood board, and I prefer the glassy poly neck over the stickier nitro (personal preference). The LR is a flame veneer w/two piece back, whereas the LP is solid flame maple w/ one piece back - if that really means anything. The Tokai 57 PAF neck pup is superb - the most useable tone I've ever had on any guitar; the bridge pup is a little thin. The Gibson Burstbuckers are OK, but I'll probably change them. To be honest, both guitars sound vitually identical when I've got them cranked. I used to think about getting rid of the LR PCboard controls, but they are actually way more responsive than the LP ones, which have to go. And I think I'd like to be buried in that beautiful Tokai Gakki case; the brown case Gibson supplies with their Historic line is a disaster waiting to happen - I've already upgraded to a better quality one.

Now, having said all that, I do tend to play my Historic more, because I've always been a bit of a Gibson snob, but when I strap on the Love Rock, I can't help but say, "Whoa, there ain't nothing wrong with this guitar!" :wink:

Novosel said:

My '84 LS60 also has a very thin neck.

Click to expand...

That's interesting, because at the moment I have two Love Rocks from 1984 and one from 1985 with me (presumably LS 60s), and they all have a thick neck, maybe very slightly different, but not similar to that '81 LS 120 I mentioned.

My '78 Reborn has a similar neck to the Gibson Standard '50s or the '59 Reissue.

I played an LS-120 from 1982 a couple weeks ago and it had a very slim neck as well. The only big neck Tokai I've played is my '03 Jr.

Jim

I owned a '59 sunburst Les Paul way back in the sixties (jeez I'm old!), and when I came across this Love Rock in a guitar store in 1988, one of the first things that struck me was how thin the neck was in comparison. What I'd compare it to maybe is kind of how I view the profile of an ES335 - thin and comfortable down at the campfire chord end, and wider yet still shallow around the twelfth fret.

This is all rather odd, because when we measured the profiles ages ago the only 60's neck anyone owned wasn't really 60's at all because it had been filed down during a botched refret.

My love rock has one of the thickest profiles I've ever played - I think it may be a '58 carve.

You really have to play both of them. But here's the easy answer, you got $1600.00 in your pocket ? if yes, then go buy the Gibson. You'll never regret it. Don't have the 1600 ? buy the Tokai. GREAT guitar for a third of the price. Throw a set of BB's in it and you'll laugh all the way to the bank. About the necks, be careful if that's a deal breaker. I have a 2003 Gibby lp with a 60's neck and a 2005 MIJ Tokai and the Tokai neck is big as compared to the 60's profile.

I just tried Two les Paul Standards in honeyburst at Sound Control Stockton ON Tees,neither had been setup had bubbled laquor jack sockets loose pickup selectors loose bookmatched tops that wernt absolute crap and they want full retail for cash,I walked around the Corner to Bandland tried two exceptional Les Pauls which were set up and sounded awesome I bought one.I have looked at Tokai LP'S in general there build quality seems very very high,I got the Gibson coz after all these years I wanted the name aswell
www.sb-direct.com

I own a '02 LS200 which I would put up against any new Gibson, including Historic/Custom Shop. Picked it up gently used for near the price of a new Classic. Workmanship is flawless. I've replaced the pickups after living with the stock Gotohs for a year and it fills every need and wish I ever had for a Les Paul.

Hi Dogslow ? welcome to the Forum 8) . Yeah, I know where you?re coming from ? I think Gibson is an aspiration for many guys, & sometimes remains unfulfilled all their lives.

Obviously Gibson has the name & the history, & they can make great guitars. But in that situation you pay dearly for the name, & reality is often different from what guys hoped or imagined. It?s the same with any top-priced goods (cars, cameras, wine, whatever), contrary to the old saying you almost NEVER "get what you pay for?, instead the law of diminishing returns sets in with a vengeance.

With Gibson I think you really have to choose the individual guitar carefully re. QC issues & issues of unannounced changes to the spec. such as Classics &/or Std?s with 2-piece backs, not to mention a failure to be really up-front about the weight relief holes (& pretty grey-area re ?sound chambers? on higher priced models). Overall I like Gibson, despite the price, but sometimes get the idea they're less than entirely straight with their customers. 2cents .

Incidentally, I think this is the thread Paladin was referring to http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2571&highlight=circumference, but surprisingly perhaps from those figures it seems Tokai LP necks are mostly fairly slim at around 74mm (circ. at 5th fret). I have an 82 LS60 which is certainly quite slim (73mm, stock ie not reshaped or re-fretted etc.). But I don?t think Tokai ever specified neck profiles on older LP?s ? you just have to try each guitar and see what you think :-? .

Ian.