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Arcane

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Hello Everyone,

I am a long time lurker looking for a little help navigating Tokai's dizzying array of models. I did own a Tokai Custom (1985? and no idea on the model) about 15 years ago. I sold it as it was not as nice as my other guitars. I am looking to pick up another Tokai and could use a hand. I currently own two Orville by Gibsons (LPC-57R and an LPS) and would like to get something from Tokai that is at least as well built and fun to play as these two guitars. Now, I understand these ObG are pretty expensive now so I do not really care about matching the vintage dollar value as much as I do about matching the build quality.

What would you recommend based on the following preferences?

My budget is flexible but the entry to mid tier is where I prefer to land unless I cannot find a quality guitar in that range. A great "bang fro the buck" would be nice. I am not partial to a new, used or a "vintage" guitar. I want an instrument that plays well. I want a player. I would like something with a bit of flame or figure in the top. Solid would be nice but veneer is OK if the guitar plays well. I do not know the all of the names of Tokai's finishes but I would like a burst of some kind. I am partial to thin nitro finishes but do not mind poly as long as it isn't thick like the neck on a Classic Vibe Squier.

So what are my options?

Thanks!
 
Wow. Amazing. Thank you for that. That will keep me busy for a while. Haha

Any recommendations on a guitar, Cliff?
 
Arcane said:
Hello Everyone,

I am a long time lurker looking for a little help navigating Tokai's dizzying array of models. I did own a Tokai Custom (1985? and no idea on the model) about 15 years ago. I sold it as it was not as nice as my other guitars. I am looking to pick up another Tokai and could use a hand. I currently own two Orville by Gibsons (LPC-57R and an LPS) and would like to get something from Tokai that is at least as well built and fun to play as these two guitars. Now, I understand these ObG are pretty expensive now so I do not really care about matching the vintage dollar value as much as I do about matching the build quality.

What would you recommend based on the following preferences?

My budget is flexible but the entry to mid tier is where I prefer to land unless I cannot find a quality guitar in that range. A great "bang fro the buck" would be nice. I am not partial to a new, used or a "vintage" guitar. I want an instrument that plays well. I want a player. I would like something with a bit of flame or figure in the top. Solid would be nice but veneer is OK if the guitar plays well. I do not know the all of the names of Tokai's finishes but I would like a burst of some kind. I am partial to thin nitro finishes but do not mind poly as long as it isn't thick like the neck on a Classic Vibe Squier.

So what are my options?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

If you are looking for a Love Rock Custom the best choice are the LC230S with maple cap and the L-235 all mahogany. They are also reasonably priced.
 
Thanks, cuthbert. I think I am most interested in a "Standard" type Les Paul with a maple cap that has a flame or touch of flame. I really dig the maple tops that have a nice light grain and a perpendicular flame characteristic to it. Something like these would be nice. I like these finishes as well. From what I can tell, the first is an ALS62 and priced around $500-$600 and the second is an HLS version and priced significantly higher.
 
OP - if you acknowledge your price point range then that may be of help :) & there are tons of 'options'

where are you located also ? EDIT: I figured that out myself. F, NB ..........
 
I guess my reason for keeping the price range open is my lack of knowledge on the build quality of each. That is why I mentioned that I would like something in the ObG build quality and did not mention price range. In my limited experience with MIJ guitars, a price range is not always directly related to quality.

Does anyone know of a thread where the board has compared the Tokai range of build quality with Gibson, ObG, etc? I am familiar with ObG so that might be a good place to start. I could not find anything with the search function.
 
What if we went this way. In each of your opinions, what are your top three best bang-for-your-buck value guitars in each of the following ranges:

Sub $500

$500 - $1000

$1000 - $1500

$1500+
 
With respect, I think you've fallen quite far down the rabbit hole at this point and your chance of getting a specific answer is dwindling!

Let's narrow it down to two. You've specifically asked about flame tops and want low to mid pricing. Ok. Tokai's lineup isn't as dizzying as it seems, it's just very confusing because the model code is linked to list price and that changes every couple of years. Today's LS128F is 2003's LS75F but it's the same guitar.

With that in mind your choice is made simpler - do you want MIC or MIJ? If you want a MIC flametop you've got the ALS62 (2018 catalogue). If you want MIJ the best bang for buck flametop in the mid tier price range is the LS136F (2018 catalogue again). MIJ build quality, MIJ hardware & electronics, mahogany body & neck, maple top, flame veneer. Anything else close to it is either not a flametop or has extra features that make it more desirable but take it out of 'best value' territory.

MIC will always be best value in absolute terms because the law of diminishing returns hits guitars hard. But the MIJ model is a big step up in terms of quality and IMO worth it.

What is the experience that makes you think MIJ guitar pricing is not related to quality? To me the only situation where that applies is the veneer top models, a plaintop is the same instrument but comes in quite a bit cheaper.
 
Thank you for the response Paladin2019.

Paladin2019 said:
Let's narrow it down to two. You've specifically asked about flame tops and want low to mid pricing. Ok. Tokai's lineup isn't as dizzying as it seems, it's just very confusing because the model code is linked to list price and that changes every couple of years. Today's LS128F is 2003's LS75F but it's the same guitar.
Click to expand...

I knew the numeric value of the model indicated pricing but I simply do not have the knowledge of identifying yesterday's models to the contemporary models. This is what makes the model lineup difficult for me especially in the used market.

Paladin2019 said:
With that in mind your choice is made simpler - do you want MIC or MIJ? If you want a MIC flametop you've got the ALS62 (2018 catalogue). If you want MIJ the best bang for buck flametop in the mid tier price range is the LS136F (2018 catalogue again). MIJ build quality, MIJ hardware & electronics, mahogany body & neck, maple top, flame veneer. Anything else close to it is either not a flametop or has extra features that make it more desirable but take it out of 'best value' territory.

MIC will always be best value in absolute terms because the law of diminishing returns hits guitars hard. But the MIJ model is a big step up in terms of quality and IMO worth it.
Click to expand...

This is a factor I was hoping to get more insight on. How much of a difference does the MIJ vs MIK vs MIC make? I know the Squier Classic Vibe MIC line is an extremely well made guitar and an excellent value. I can compare a MIA Fender to a MIC Squier but I cannot sit down and play the different Tokai's. An excellent value is always nice to find.

Paladin2019 said:
What is the experience that makes you think MIJ guitar pricing is not related to quality? To me the only situation where that applies is the veneer top models, a plaintop is the same instrument but comes in quite a bit cheaper.
Click to expand...

Arcane said:
I currently own two Orville by Gibsons (LPC-57R and an LPS) and would like to get something from Tokai that is at least as well built and fun to play as these two guitars. Now, I understand these ObG are pretty expensive now so I do not really care about matching the vintage dollar value as much as I do about matching the build quality.
Click to expand...

I was referring to comparing my ObGs to a Tokai in today's market. The guitars I have were purchased for significantly less that what one would purchase them for today. For instance, my 57R cost me $700 15 years ago. It seems it would now cost $1500 US or more for a similar guitar. I was hoping to find a guitar of similar or better build quality but I find comparing the market value of my ObG (somewhat rare and now collectible) to a guitar that is still being produced problematic on a strictly market value front. I just want a guitar that has as good or better build quality as my ObG.
 
Arcane said:
I was referring to comparing my ObGs to a Tokai in today's market. The guitars I have were purchased for significantly less that what one would purchase them for today. For instance, my 57R cost me $700 15 years ago. It seems it would now cost $1500 US or more for a similar guitar. I was hoping to find a guitar of similar or better build quality but I find comparing the market value of my ObG (somewhat rare and now collectible) to a guitar that is still being produced problematic on a strictly market value front. I just want a guitar that has as good or better build quality as my ObG.
Click to expand...



So, you are, "hoping to find a guitar of similar or better build quality" compared to your ObG.
Are you looking at build quality alone, or are you also looking at specs?
They are different attributes.
 
I'm more familiar with Orville than I am ObG; I will go out on a limb and guess your ObG was a Terada produced guitar?
The factory where it was made can clue us all in on the level of 'build quality.'
Also, I will guess the body back is not a single piece but at least a 2 piece back? That is a spec attribute.
 
the LPC with that serial number scheme would seem to be FugiGen.

Best bet for your search IMO would be Yahoo Japan auctions, or one of the (many) Japanese proxy/middle man web sites.
 
guitar hiro said:
Best bet for your search IMO would be Yahoo Japan auctions, or one of the (many) Japanese proxy/middle man web sites.
Click to expand...

Sure - but for the Tokai I need to figure out the models to target. The purpose of starting this thread was for assistance on identifying a Tokai model that are on par with the LPC.

Is there a list of the proxy sites?
 
the interwebz is your friend .................

https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+guitar+proxy+web+sites&hl=en&sxsrf=ALeKk00xOvPJydGO58nPJOu_AF0I6norCg:1586653450306&ei=CmmSXo-kEsKqtQbf45yIDw&start=0&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiP0aXa2OHoAhVCVc0KHd8xB_E4FBDy0wN6BAgMECw&biw=1366&bih=654
 
Sorry - I was hoping for a forum resource. A Google search does not provide much in the way of recommendations.
 
Ok, I'm starting to get really confused about what it is you're actually looking for.

If I refer back to my first post where I narrowed you down to two choices (MIJ or MIC) and skim through everything written since, you've now added the criteria that you want something similar to a MIJ ObG. Well in that case it's easy, you go for the MIJ version over the MIC.

Tokai's mid-range flame veneer model has been a staple of the lineup for decades now. When you find one you'll know it by the specs and, most likely, the price.

Arcane said:
Sorry - I was hoping for a forum resource. A Google search does not provide much in the way of recommendations.
Click to expand...

The forum *IS* the resource. Find something you like the look of, post it here, and get a yay or nay from the membership. Look back the post history and identification/valuation makes up a majority of the postings here nowadays.
 

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