Tokai Prices Getting a little aggravating. Come on People.

These %150 markups are getting old. I ve played many mid 70's - 80's tokai les pauls. Seen several lame fret jobs and Horrifying Thick poly finishes. This absolutely Ruins a guitars tone.

Love Rocks are just as hit or miss as any other honduran mahog guitars it seems.
Any body know an old tokai les paul model with a nitro cellulose finish? Also what's up with Brazilian Rosewood fret boards? What years / models have them? This is essential to the Les Paul soud. I am buying a Les Paul soon. I have no brand allegance.
A used historic '57 still seems to be the way to go.

The Jackasses who are hording these Tokai guitars here in southern california, bidding on each others auctions and driving up the cost of these guitars that cost $400 in Japan should be ashamed. Jeffs guitars here in san diego actually tries to get over a $1000 for plain jane love rock 50's!

Truth is until the actual Gibson prices come down, the Tokai's wont.
There's too big of a demand for LP (as well as strat) guitars.
This whole vintage craze the last decade or so has really driven prices high. Thus, people have been scarfing up the replicas to try and save a few bucks. Well, this craze has caught on as well.
The Tokai's, Burny's, Orville's, Edwards, Greco's, etc... are in demand.
Especially for the " as close to a" replicas as possible.
I don't see the modified look Tokai's selling as great as the actual Japan replicas. People just want it to be authentic in look as possible without the Gibby name on it. Many of those replicas are considered even better than the production Gibbys. So, people are snatching them. So, why spend $1800 on a Gibson LP Standard when you can still get a Tokai LS85 for under $1000 with case and shipping.

As far as Poly finishes. They have been getting quite thinner over the last couple of years as manufacturers have been looking to alternatives to nitro, do to it's eventual complete banning in the USA. I think many of the Japan companies have already started the switch the last few years to them.
Look at a Korean Epi LP vs an Japan Epi LP Elitist. There is quite a difference in the poly finishes. The Elitist is quite a bit thinner.

As far as Nitro. I know some of the "Orville by Gibson" LP's had a Lacquer finish. The Tokai LS200 and LS320 have a Lacquer finish as well. Not sure if it's Nitro or Acrylic lacquer though.
Navigator/ESP I believe actually uses a Shilac of some type for the N-LP-700.

I think the days are gone for awhile of picking up Japan replicas at basement bargain prices.
Heck even the superstrats of the 80's are starting to come back, and are fetching better prices again. For awhile you could pick up Esp's, Jackson's and especially Carvins(My Fav) for cheap used. Not no more. Prices are rising as demand becomes more.

Kent

The Japanese have caught on to the fact that old Tokais are in demand... I don`t see many $400. Love Rocks these days, unless they are brand new low end MIK models. Older Grecos, Burnys Orvilles by Gibson... are also very well made and prices are rising on these too. Just got a Les Paul Reborn Tokai from `78 that had been modified and I paid a very good price for it, but that was luck and maybe because I`m not in Tokyo where I`m certain I would have paid a lot more for it.
Navigator make some real nice instruments as well, and there are many other Japanese makers that you don`t know about that are world class.
good luck finding yourn.

Swollentone said:

These %150 markups are getting old. I ve played many mid 70's - 80's tokai les pauls. Seen several lame fret jobs and Horrifying Thick poly finishes. This absolutely Ruins a guitars tone.

Love Rocks are just as hit or miss as any other honduran mahog guitars it seems. Also what's up with Brazilian Rosewood fret boards? I have no brand allegance. A used historic '57 still seems to be the way to go.

The Jackasses who are hording these Tokai guitars here in southern california, bidding on each others auctions and driving up the cost of these guitars that cost $400 in Japan should be ashamed. Jeffs guitars here in san diego actually tries to get over a $1000 for plain jane love rock 50's!

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Uhh...welcome to the forum?
:-?

Oh well If Ya Cant Beat Em......
I Bought A Cherry 82 love Rocks Gold Top for A real Good Price. It has Dimarzio Zebra stripes. Any body Know if That means it has a laminated top? (That's what I gathered from The Catalog on this site.) I thought that only (Some) flametops were laminated when I ordered it. I still Have Time Before it's shipped. If you have some Knowledge on This I would Greatly Appreciate the Advice. Keep on Pickin Till Ya love your rocks off!

I Bought A Cherry 82 love Rocks Gold Top for A real Good Price. It has Dimarzio Zebra stripes. Any body Know if That means it has a laminated top? (That's what I gathered from The Catalog on this site.) I thought that only (Some) flametops were laminated when I ordered it. I still Have Time Before it's shipped. If you have some Knowledge on This I would Greatly Appreciate the Advice. Keep on Pickin Till Ya love your rocks off!

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I dont understand it either...I have a few new LR70's and a LR75 Goldtop in stock and my cost is so high on them that I barely make a profit worth investing in anymore new model Love rocks. The costs of Duty Fees & Broker Fees drive my cost on them to over $650.00 and up on each guitar........& THAT IS DEALER COST!!!!. I actually let one go at cost because I needed to buy other guitar stock. I probably wont stock anymore LR's and the only way I will get them for customers is via special order with a deposit. I thought these were supposed to be in high demand....I guess they are if you give them away...and that is no way for a dealer to survive and that is why dealers have been charging more for them. Hmmm....let's see....I invest 700.00 in a Love Rock to let it sit for months only to get 50 bucks out of it?? It makes you go hmmmmmmm...
Dealers Wanting an arm and leg for a L50 & Customers wanting 1980's prices in 2004 is a little much as well.
Here is another thought you might want to consider........if you buy a guitar from one country and you live in another (i.e. I live in the usa but I get a great deal on one in Japan) That 600.00 guitar just cost you $1000.00 once you add shipping, insurance, and duty taxes.
Face it...no matter where you buy it.....they are all within the same price range in the end.

Let me splain dis! In the world of car collecting we refer to a real clean,just right ,dead on perfect example as "Cherry". So what we have here is a perfect Gold Top! TG 8)

Hey GC, glad to have you here! Are the Love Rocks you sell those funky shaped ones that look like the Kendrick Townhouse model from a few years back? If they are I think that is the explanation, I dont think anyone wants one of those. The new Epi headstock shape is another spare that will be hard to move. I got a couple of the early Korean's/ the SG60 and a MM limited edition and they are great ,but the Japanese are the only ones I'm interested in now. I want Replicas not something with the shape and knob configuration and headstock that dont match the originals. Just my opinion, how about the rest of you? 8) TG The only exception are the TST,AST, and Goldstars with the cut headstock , I like those...personal preferance. :wink:

Just check out our site on the www icon below my post and tell me what is wrong with these. I also have an 80 on e-bay right now that is not listed on the guitarcellar site.

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Now that I got your attention! How do You guys feel about those Dimarzios from the Early 80's Love Rock? How do they stack up against the Tokai pickups or the Seymours? Got that PAF vibe?About 8k ohm?You Guy's have been Awesome so far by the way. This **** is my life, so thank ya kindly for your time.

Seperate issue, Is it the Sycamore screwing the tone up of these new Love rocks by the Way?
Is a decent cut of Maple that tough to Aquire? Hell the fretboards look like a better grade of Rosewood than some Gibson Historics, Why skimp on the top?
Sycamore is a switch my mom used to tan me with when I stole old man Johnsons apples! Not a top for a fine Les Paul.

As far as early Love rocks not being "real Les Pauls", I say if it walks like a chicken and talks like a chicken its a god **** chicken!

No disrespect but that Love Rock doesnt cut it! or that Guild looking Filtertroned 335? What is that supposed to be? They wont sell , Im sorry, but I do love the Explorer! That Headstock is Killer! 8) TG

Are you talking funky shapes on the Love Rocks...? They look just like a Les Paul to me...except for the headstocks
The other funky shapes sold quickly & well to my surprise. All I have left are the Love Rocks until next week.

Check those on your website next to an old LR or a LP ...Come on take a look! The control set-up, the shape...Sorry but they are Wrong! Can I get a wittness? TG

Let me explain where I'm coming from...GC I apreciate what you are doing ,bringing Tokais to the U.S. market. I think we are looking at two different segments of the market. I have been collecting Tok's since the late 70's early 80's. IMC was here in the Dallas /Ft,.Worth at that time and Tokai was everywhere here. These were the "Replicas" that changed the industry. The first Strats put Fender on their ears! They were the only thing available to the regular guy during "Strat Mania" of the early 80's. These are the guitars that I crave and collect. I'm not interested in a 70's Gibson or Fender, I want what made these guitars great...original spec's! A maple cap that I can see under the thin binding of a LP cutaway, like the LR's that I have , like the LP's I have... I don't want an LP with a volute , or for Godsake a Maple Neck!!!!! The Korean Explorer that you offer is something I would /will buy {that headstock is killer!} The Japanese ES on your site ...Count me In! But That LR isnt happening! My hat is off to you , and thanks for what you are doing, but I think you will do best to promote the Talbo, the Korean Strats and those badass V's and Explorers. The Gretsch "copy" with the funky cutaway is another one just wo't be on my wish list, but cut it right and you got a sale!!! This is just my opinion, I could be wrong! Peace TG :wink:

GUITAR CELLAR said:

Are you talking funky shapes on the Love Rocks...? They look just like a Les Paul to me...except for the headstocks
The other funky shapes sold quickly & well to my surprise. All I have left are the Love Rocks until next week.

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If you look,
The horn is more rounded on the NLS.
The controls are the opposite on the NLS.
The headstock is has the extra bump in the center.

It's mainly the controls and horn that bother most. The little extra bump is hardly noticable, so many would over look it.

The Japan only Tokai's look exact to a Gibson.
The Japan NLS do not.



Japan only LS200

This doesnt mean that the NLS aren't quality axes.
It's just people want exact replica's is apearance.

So, if you can get correct horn and control style, I think they would sell much better.

Kent

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Swollentone said:

Seperate issue, Is it the Sycamore screwing the tone up of these new Love rocks by the Way? Is a decent cut of Maple that tough to Aquire? Hell the fretboards look like a better grade of Rosewood than some Gibson Historics, Why skimp on the top? Sycamore is a switch my mom used to tan me with when I stole old man Johnsons apples! Not a top for a fine Les Paul.

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Of course the sycamore laminate doesn't 'screw the tone' :roll: First of all, sycamore is actually a maple species. It is maple and as far as I know doesn't cost any less than other maple. Secondly, those medium-end Tokais are constructed with a regular two-piece maple top, after which a very thin veneer of sycamore is placed. The veneer is so thin it doesn't have an influence on the tone, even the tone-anal guys at the Les Paul Forum say that such a veneer is 'completely transparent' tone-wise (in fact - I've seen a few real 52/53-to-burst conversions over there that had a similar veneer because the original top didn't have a center seem).