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hekdiesel

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Hey guys,

There isn't as much information out there as the Les Pauls on the Tokai strats, how do they compare to Fenders? Is it closer to a MIM or US made Fender?

Thanks
 
I dunno about the AST100 but the ones i've tried have been closer to the MIJ Fenders.

Generally they have vintage specs, so in terms of feel/vibe they're closest to either the Mexican Classic Series or the USA Vintage Reissues. I recently got a USA '72 Tele thinline (since stores here had crazy deals on them... half price, basically), and my Breezy feels pretty similar to it, other than being poly rather than nitro. (The AST100 is nitro I think.)
 
Thanks Dave,

Any info is useful, it would stand to reason that of they used to make strats for fender that they can make a good quality product, especially if they use good quality materials.

I jut want to get a conversation going to get a better idea, I am thinking about getting one because the MiA strats are so **** pricey, and I don't like my friends mim strat. I am more of a les Paul guy, but I'm building a collection and I feel no collection is complete without a proper strat.
 
Yeah... it just depends. I think for a good while there the MIJ Fender-type instruments weren't as popular mainly because Fenders were generally better value than Gibsons- you used to be able to get a USA standard strat for ?600, whereas the equivalent Gibson model (Les Paul Standard) was double that, maybe even a little more, while the differences in prices of the Tokai models of each type was very little.

I'm going on memory here but I think at one point the Tokai Gibsons copies were around ?500 for the cheapest ones, while a Gibson Les Paul Standard was ?1300- to me that makes it hard to justify the Gibson unless it's my favourite type of guitar which I need for all my favourite tones (and even if I do, there are higher-end Tokai models at higher prices too which are also worth considering). On the contrary, a Tokai Fender-type was normally around ?400, while the USA Fenders started at a similar price for the Highway Ones and the USA standards were ?600. That's a much closer price difference, and makes the choice a lot harder. It makes it harder again when I remember that any time (which wasn't that often, admittedly) I tried a similarly-priced Tokai and Gibson (and normally the Tokai was still a few hundred cheaper, if not quite a bit cheaper), IMO the Tokai smoked the Gibson, whereas when I tried similarly-priced Tokais and Fenders, the differences seemed to be a lot smaller.

Even Tokai fans would struggle to justify the Tokai if the "real thing" was no dearer, for resale value if nothing else- I got a Gibson SG standard recently, for example, because I got a really good deal and it was actually cheaper than the Tokai equivalent... and came with a hard case too (the Tokai didn't). So from that point of view it sort of makes sense- you can't fight the entire market on your own.

Conversely when I got my Breezysound, I paid around ?400 for it, the USA reissues were more like ?1000 (and I didn't think they were really any better, apart from the nitro and coming with a case), and even the MIM classic series, which is the closest MIM to it, were about ?100 more and I thought the MIJ Tokais I'd tried had the edge (though admittedly it was very close, and I might have been splitting hairs). The Tokais normally have higher specs (2-piece or 3-piece bodies etc.) on paper too, which don't always necessarily add up to a better guitar, but which everything else being equal, I figured I might as well have.

Plus as I said, it depends on the exact spec you want- the vast majority of the Tokai Fender-type models have vintage specs, so if you want a more modern spec strat like e.g. a USA standard strat, then the Tokai isn't really going to do that at all.

It's really up to you, in other words. I really like my Tokais but I also kick myself that I didn't get a Fender USA standard strat back when they were ?600 too, since a more modern spec strat would be very handy, too (easier to play and more versatile for a lot of the stuff I play). :lol:

Hopefully someone else can chime in too with their opinions, because most of the other regulars here have far more experience with Tokais (and Fenders and Gibsons for that matter) than I do, and I don't want to be giving you the wrong end of the stick :lol:
 
I have what i believe to be a 2012 AST70. Its so **** good i questioned whether it might be an AST100. I got it for a song (my opinion). Mine has non-vintage appointments though, so it more of Tokai's modern take on what a strat should be i guess. Quality is top notch. Non fender headstock which puts some off but not me lol.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Tokai-AST70-Strat-Guitar-in-Sunburst-Goldstar-Sound-Japan-Made-MIJ-/111423252879?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=4E84JThT8xYCb1jIf21NqLikzy0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
 
It's worth remembering that, Fender Strat bodies have changed size, only a very small amount however, try fitting a modern scratchplate to a Pre CBS and it won't fit if it's a genuine Pre CBS model. It's only a couple of millimetres here and there however, it does make a difference and it's quite plainly noticeable along the reverse curve of the bottom of the body from where the input jack to the lower horn is. People will argue till the cows come home as whether there is any noticeable effect on the sound. Tokais, as far as i know, are replications of the earlier models so aren't really comparable to 80s Fenders at all, in the sense they are, when push comes to shove, a "different shape".

I'd be interested to know whether, the Fender Japanese 80s Strats, which have rocketed proportionally the highest in value, of nearly all relatively recent Strats have CBS styles bodies or "Vintage" styled bodies.

I discovered this for myself when I built my own "59" replica and the standard modern Fender scratchplate didn't fit. Took it to my luthier to sort it out and he pointed out how Fender have changed the body size.
 
Interesting stuff guys, as I mentioned I'm not well versed at all in strats so this is all very helpful.

So, the reason I want a strat at all is because I do enjoy SRV a lot, and I'm trying to get a guitar that will get me close to his tone, I currently use a Nighthawk for this, and it does ok, but it doesn't have the "real" strat sound, so I guess a follow-up question would be:

If you could get an AST to get you a SRV style tone, would you do t and which upgrades would you do to it?

Someone suggested in another forum to get fralin blues pups, but no one there is familiar with tokai AST models just fenders.
 
Most all of SRV'w stuff was recorded on a strat...... and a strat sounds like a strat - very distinctive. Hard to find that sound on anything with humbuckers.

If you buy a decent strat - say a Tokai Springy or Goldstar, look for E or U stamped pickups and you'll have that strat sound. No need to swap anything out.....but you need to play it first, best through a tube amp without a lot of effects so that you can hear what the guitar sounds like unmodified.

As most players know, the bulk of your tone comes from your hands, pick attack, phrasing, etc. Stevie played with very heavy strings and very heavy picks too - try playing light strings (9's) with a thin (.50mm) pick and compare that to 11's with a 1.0mm pick.... HUGE difference in tone.
 
^ Personally I don't think the strings make that much difference, as long as you can play like SRV (and have a strat, fender-type tube amp and tubescreamer-style overdrive pedal). :lol: EDIT: That's interesting about the pick. I use heavier picks than that (1.5mm), so maybe that's partly compensating for the thinner strings I tend to use?

And I agree you need a strat, yeah.

And yeah I agree- if the stock AST pickups are as good as the ones in my breezy, I don't think there's any pressing need to upgrade them. That's not to say they're the best pickups I've ever tried or anything like that, but they're easily good enough to be getting on with. If you don't sound like SRV it won't be the pickups' fault, in other words.
 
Thanks guys, I get that skill is most of where tone and sound come from. But it's not so easy to be as good as guys like SRV, so you want to get as close as you can in the ways that you can.

:wink:
 
marcusnieman said:
A good article on string gauge:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/String_Myths_Part_1

Interesting article. It neglects to state that SRV dropped the tuning to Eb though - which will have a big affect on tension.
My stock P90 LS160 pickups came into focus with 11 guage interestingly. Of course how the tailpiece and neck angle on the guitar are set can have an impact as to what is appropriate for that type of guitar.
 
hekdiesel said:
Thanks guys, I get that skill is most of where tone and sound come from. But it's not so easy to be as good as guys like SRV, so you want to get as close as you can in the ways that you can.

:wink:

Oh yeah absolutely. And I agree entirely that having ballpark gear will get you a lot closer, especially if your current gear is unsuitable. Just if you don't already have a strat, getting a strat with decent stock pickups (which the Tokai has) may well get you close enough before worrying about swapping pickups etc.
 
I've been playing 11's forever and a played a friend's strat the other night with 10's on it and I loved it!! So much easier to work with but I did have the tendency to over bend notes...... might actually set one of my strats up with 10's for fun. (SRV's brother Jimmie plays 10's and I actually prefer Jimmie's tone as a whole)
 
Revisiting this because I got my LS and I love it, but I have a few questions:

I read somewhere that the nitro-cellulose finish techniques used in the US are prohibited in Japan (???), and that what they call lacquer is a polynyas with a nitro on top of that. This sounds silly, but you guys are knowledgeable so I thought I'd ask.

Also, the ash bodies that that tokai uses on the new models, how many pieces do the use on the body? I see that for alder they use 2, but I'm thinking ash cause I like the ash grain aesthetically speaking.

And lastly, how useable are the whammy bars on them? I had a PRS SE that the whammy bar was pretty inconsistent with holding the tuning.
 
hekdiesel said:
I read somewhere that the nitro-cellulose finish techniques used in the US are prohibited in Japan (???), and that what they call lacquer is a polynyas with a nitro on top of that. .

That's what Tokai calls "Lacquer Finish" in the catalogues

A few top premium LS models are called "lacquer" (all lacquer/nitro finishes?) in the catalogue.
 
Yeah, it seems from a quick look to the catalog that anything above a 100 series will have a lacquer finish, but how is that different than nitro-cellulose (if it is different)?
 

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