Tokai LC98S Refin as in what's under the paint.

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Quietly

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I am well and truly in love with this guitar, not only for how it sounds; but how it plays with a neck and fretboard that are way over their price in quality and playability. Its whiteness was beginning to bug me in the sense that it was almost cold and that beneath all that paint there was another guitar waiting to be released from its jacket of polyester finish.

Common sense also told me that I had no way of knowing what was under the paint and how many pieces of wood I would find on the back or indeed the front of the guitar. It is no secret in the guitar industry that solid painted guitars are destined for multiple pieces of wood. No complaint on that as logic dictates covering a superb grained piece of wood with a solid colour is nothing short of sacrilege. At this stage I should point out that the should I or should I not debate, was going around what I have for a brain for several weeks before I actually bit the bullet.

Once I had purchase several sheets of various grades of wet and dry sanding paper starting with 180 grit, 240 grit, 320 and finally1,000 grit my mind was made up. Off came the hard ware and with the fret board masked up I decided to start with the back of the guitar. As I held the sanding block in my hand it crossed my mind that this was the moment of truth and once I started there was no turning back.

I started in the middle which quickly confirmed this was not a two piece back and most certainly was a three piece. This was quickly confirmed as was this is not Mahogany or if it was it was not a Mahogany that I had seen on a guitar before. The poly lacquer and paint was not too difficult to remove about 2-3 hours I guess but I wasn?t prepared for the sealer underneath which took even longer to remove. No wonder the wood on the guitar couldn?t vibrate or give of its nuances as it really was cocooned in polyester.

TokaiLC98SPrep1.jpg


TokaiLC98SPrep2.jpg


Note on the picture above the darker area is the sealer and believe me it was a real pain to sand it off bearing in mind it was all done by hand with no power tools or paint remover.

Once fully blocked off several coats of True Oil, and in between coats flatted off with wire wool; finished the job, not too many as I did not want a highly gloss back. Just sufficient to seal the back of guitar and here it is in all its glory. A three piece quarter sawn Sapele back which to mind contradicts the Tokai catalogue which states the guitar has a Mahogany back. No big deal for me as Sapele is a little brighter than Mahogany also more dense and solid or shall we say heavier. It?s also no secret that it is about 5 X less expensive than Honduran Mahogany. Here is a link worth reading http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/woods/body-woods/sapele

RefinTokaiLC98S38.jpg


I'll post the top shortly.
 
jacco said:
Nice work Q!
Are you 100% sure that it's sapele?
And from which year is this Tokai?

Hi Jacco yes that is Sapele and this guitar is 2010. Just Google quater sawn Sapele.



Once the back was finished I moved onto the top with more than a prayer or two that at least if there were three or more pieces of Maple they would be better matched than the Sapele on the back. It was a magic moment to find that not only did it have three pieces of Maple but they looked almost book matched with a beautiful grain. Sometimes life smiles on the brave LOL. I mention three pieces of Maple as three piece tops were very common in the past with Gibson and I always liked the look of them so I really have no preference over a two piece against a three. Same problem with the sealer it was a real killer to sand off remember with the contoured top I couldn?t use a sanding block just the paper and my hands. Allow two days if you are going to do this as I did by hand, my excuse is that I am retired and have time on my hands (pun intended).

TokaiLC98SPrep3.jpg


TokaiLC98SPrep4.jpg


You can see the sealer and the light areas where it has been removed by the neck and the bridge tone pot. Looks done but believe me removing the sealer is the hard work part. Here it is with the sealer removed.

TokaiLC98SPrep5.jpg
 
dombat said:
Why remove the sealer? You will have to seal the wood anyhow

Because when I started sanding down I went through the sealer in some areas so it was all or nothing. Next why do I have to use a sealer when I am applying water base wood dye that needs to soak into the wood? In either case the sealer was removed and not replaced what you see here is pure wood with water based wood dye and True Oil.

I was tempted to just go with True Oil on the top but decided to use some water based Cherry Wood dye on it. I wanted to create a sort of vintage look on the tope something like an old violin again with a semi gloss finish rather than a high gloss one. Using a glass dish I watered down the dye about 50% to give a light wash across the top followed up by a more concentrated mix around the edge. Worth pointing out that as there no sealer on the wood using water based dye means it will not take to the wood uniformly. Any knots in the wood or birds eyes will absorb the dye differently. Note the joins between the wood look lighter and that is because the glue in those joints will not absorb the dye as the wood does. Remember I am discovering this all by pure luck rather than judgement but the end result once the True Oil is added is for me outstanding and far beyond what I had hoped for.

RefinTokaiLC98S27.jpg


RefinTokaiLC98S26.jpg


RefinTokaiLC98S24.jpg


I?ll post up some more shots in natural light shortly but rest assure the guitar almost looks like a gold top in some lights. I will also do a video with some sound files as there is no doubt in my mind that the guitar sounds better, the back now vibrates, it?s louder acoustically and plugged in it feels and sounds warmer and at the same time brighter. For me a really great guitar has become a superb one.
 
Last pictures and I should mention that my intention was to refinish the whole guitar but once the top was prepared I thought it would look good with the sides and neck left white. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it LOL :eek:

RefinTokaiLC98S22.jpg


RefinTokaiLC98S20.jpg
 
Diamond said:
Looks great, nice work, but it will sound identical.

Thanks my friend, I am sure you are right but part of the decease is that whatever we do to our guitars we believe it has improved the sound LOL.

Sounds brighter and warmer to me and I am sticking to my guns so there.

Put another way removing I don't know how many microns of polyester lacquer, paint and sealer and leaving the wood with just a light coat of true oil should alter or affect the sound of the guitar. If it doesn't then the whole nitro poly argument is blown out of the water period not to mention thinner finishes and breathing wood . :lol: Pulling your leg and please folks do not use this thread to open this can of worms, just accept from me this guitar now sounds better :eek: :-? :wink: with a probability that it doesn't.
 
iainblack said:
Looks really good. Nice work!
+1

What you have here is the same guitar with a poly finish and then with all the finish removed - an experiment that is rarely carried out in the finish vs tone debate.

In my mind you probably know more about it than all the nitro hypers who are just trying sell vintage Fenders and Gibsons because none of them would have stripped the nitro and put poly on them to check... :lol:
My point is that anybody who hasn't done what you've done can not know if the finish makes any difference - it may just be the tone properties of each individual piece of wood that they're hearing.

I'm with you on your "new" Custom LP.
 
JVsearch said:
iainblack said:
Looks really good. Nice work!
+1

What you have here is the same guitar with a poly finish and then with all the finish removed - an experiment that is rarely carried out in the finish vs tone debate.

In my mind you probably know more about it than all the nitro hypers who are just trying sell vintage Fenders and Gibsons because none of them would have stripped the nitro and put poly on them to check... :lol:
My point is that anybody who hasn't done what you've done can not know if the finish makes any difference - it may just be the tone properties of each individual piece of wood that they're hearing.

I'm with you on your "new" Custom LP.

Thanks I know that the late Ed Roman was often panned for his opinions but I think this article is as close to the truth about finishes as you can get.
http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/polyvsnitro.htm
 
Max The Dog said:
Hey Quietly when did Ed Roman die? I have spent many an hour reading his rants. Nice work with your guitar!!
Pete.

Hi Pete thanks on the guitar. Ed Roman died December 2011

http://www.guitarworld.com/guitar-maker-ed-roman-dead-built-guitars-ace-frehley-ted-nugent
 
Thanks for that Quietly, heres a picture of a Samick that I bought from him about eight or nine years ago. Cost much more than it was worth, long before I knew anything about import duty and courier fees.
Pete.

LETTER151.jpg
 
Max The Dog said:
Thanks for that Quietly, heres a picture of a Samick that I bought from him about eight or nine years ago. Cost much more than it was worth, long before I knew anything about import duty and courier fees.
Pete.

Thanks for that Pete if that plays and sounds as good as it looks you have winner. I have a soft spot for Samick as I had an early Epiphone Sheraton made by them and it was a superb build, even had fret binding which was unusual. Another one long gone, showing my age LOL. Have a good one.
 
That samick looks really nice. I have a Samick built Aria Pro II PE special from the same era thats a really beautiful and well built instrument. All that experience making beautiful pianos payed off.
 

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