Real Tokai or faked?

Tokai guitar discussion

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loverockerUK

Real Tokai or faked?

Post by loverockerUK » Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:22 pm

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Last edited by loverockerUK on Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

tokaiguy
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Post by tokaiguy » Wed Oct 23, 2002 2:10 pm

8) Some of my Fenders look like that! The thing thats wrong with this Spingy are the machines! They should be the Kluson Deluxe style with the string fed post!

beerslinger
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Post by beerslinger » Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:17 pm

Pups look fishy too.
It looks a lot like mine , my Pups are mint green
covered from a '62 Fender MIJ reissue. The background on
my 7okai label is not discoloured like that one.

http://ca.photos.yahoo.com/bc/ratsatam2 ... rs&.view=t

Preben
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Post by Preben » Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:51 pm

I agree, looks like a sticker!

guitarboy
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Post by guitarboy » Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:15 am

Fake Tokai!!!

What ever next!!!
I thinks that's my new catch phrase?

Yeah I agree, we may be doing someone a diservice but
it looks like a load of odd parts all stuck together.

GB

apmechling
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Post by apmechling » Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:06 am

I guess I've got to step in and save this guy's rep :-?

I just bought a 1979 7okai ST-45 Springy Sound from the original owner here in Japan, and I have a few interesting things to note:

1) The headstock decal on mine is MUCH more dark and worn than even
milkydog's - the guy who is selling that one on eBay. Also, he is
obviously in Japan, too, judging from the guitars he's selling, and I don't
know many Japanese people who would fake a Tokai sticker on an old,
used guitar. It's just not like the way they work or think. They HATE
old guitars for the most part anyway, which is why some of us can
make a few bucks off of them. I don't think they'd go through the
trouble of faking it - maybe if it was a Fender, but not a 7okai.

2) My ST-45 also has the original tuners, too, and they're not like the
kluson-style tuners you'd expect, but more like the tuners in that guy's
auction in question, and I know mine ARE original. They are more like
the Fender 70's tuners. I wonder why Tokai put them on there???
Maybe it was because early models were put together with different
parts because they didn't yet have the usual parts?

So, as far as I can tell about the headstock sticker and the tuners, this guitar very well could be original, because mine has the same issues but I know mine is 100% stock. I'm not so sure about the pickups, though.

I know, I know, let's add some more confusion to the Tokai mystery, huh?

But, seriously, they made quite a few guitars with strange details - like the ST-45 model I mentioned earlier - it has a 3-tone sunburst :x finish over really nice ash wood, and it has a button on the headstock like a '54 RI?! :-?

Very weird, indeed, but I've noticed on early model 7okai Springys, that a whole bunch of variation was common and apparently stock.

APM

loverockerUK

Post by loverockerUK » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:02 pm

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Last edited by loverockerUK on Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dana
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Post by Dana » Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:06 pm

I agree with AP. They have access to many REAL Tokai's. It would probably be easier to drive to 3 guitar shops here, haggle a price, take it home, and play it (or sell it). I havent been to a guitar store yet that hasnt had some old Tokai's, really cheap too. It would be more work to put a sticker on and conceal it than to just get the real thing dirt cheap.

A question i have been thinking about is how universal are these necks on tokai's? I've seen some body and neck combo's that i dont usually see often.

Dana

luis
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Post by luis » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:39 am

What about making a new report about pups,tone and volumen pots,jacks,and all electronic stuff Tokai has used for their electric instruments?I can send a lot of photos to Ned or Peter for putting on this site.John you nnow a lot about this.Barry you seems to.Anyone??? :wink: :wink:

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Good Idea!

Post by apmechling » Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:45 am

Hey Luis -

Great Idea! :P

I agree that putting a few pictures of what original pups and electronics look like would be nice. I wonder if there was as much variation under the pickguard as there was with hardware?

It would be a nice addition to a "Springy Sound" section or a "Goldstar Sound" section, or even "Breezy Sound"... I have a few pictures I could even send in at Ned's request of some mint guitars' electronics and pups.
_____________________________________________________________

Also, Barry -

I didn't mean to imply earlier that the Japanese are above putting a new sticker on the headstock of an older Tokai to make it worth more... I really meant that they would have no reason to because most people in Japan scoff at Japanese guitars of any kind - they want the real deal, Fender USA or Gibson USA. There are very few Japanese collectors of Japanese guitars, I think, but they seem to clean house around here anyway.

It's just the way they view things here - imported guitars are what's hot, and I just can't see anyone here going through all the trouble of putting a sticker on an old guitar to get more out of it.

That would be like some guy in southern California going through the trouble of faking a replacement "Made in Mexico" sticker for his Fender strat headstock. Probably wouldn't help him sell that piece... of .... :wink:

lawtone
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Post by lawtone » Sun Oct 27, 2002 8:58 pm

Lower model Springy Sounds used Schaller split shaft tuners, not the single line Kluson copies. Also the neck bolts have very large heads which is unique to Springy Sound models. Dead giveaway. In fact, the neck plate on older Springy Sound Strats is actually a different size and spacing from a stock Fender or the later Goldstar series. The decals get dark exactly like this. Can't speak to the pups or body. The pup covers are an odd color, but my old Springy covers do get dark, although not this shade. My guess is it is legit. May have to bid myself.

apmechling
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Post by apmechling » Sun Oct 27, 2002 9:11 pm

Hey guys,

If you want to see what I was talking about with my 1979 7okai ST-45, I just put it on eBay. It is all original, but has the split-tuners like lawtone was talking about, because it was a lower model? I thought it may have been due to the fact that it was so old, they didn't have klusons available back that far. That was another rumor I heard, not being verified or anything... just a possible reason.

Anyway, here's mine, and check out that dark headstock decal. Man, it was hard to put that new sticker on there! :lol: JUST KIDDING!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 06884&rd=1

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