Tokai Love Rock's Classic 57 Bridge PUP Driving Me Nutzo!

Tonight was the first time I had the chance to run my Tokai Les Paul through it's paces..The neck pickup is the stock pickup and it is warm,and round,and sustains great and has a nice clean tone...Not too dark and with a little jangle to it...

The Classic 57 in the bridge of this guitar just really sucks though! It's bright and sounds ok without the band,but while playing with the band it has no mids and just doesn't cut right.This pickup is all highs and lows and no mids...Turning up just makes me too overbearing...Frustrated tonight to say the least! I feel like I'm getting the highend bite of a Tele through a Les Paul.....Yucky..

Here's the current setup....Classic 57 in the bridge w/ .033 cap on the tone pot...DR Pure Blues strings .010's...The D'Addarios would make the guitar even brighter,but I'll bet it cut better,but maybe in a bad way?

Fender Cyber Twin...Works great with my Gibson SG with it's stock pickups though I'll have to admit that the CT has been set up for my fender guitars.

The tone I was getting tonight wasn't muddy and had clarity but it was just missing the right amount of mids and was too toppy and maybe anemic...

What do you all think to cure this problem with the bridge pickup in this thing?

John

First mistake: putting in a Classic '57
Second mistake: putting it in a Korean Love Rock

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just kidding, John!!

Seriously, I'm going through the same search myself, and I haven't heard real favourable things about the Classic '57. I've heard good things about Seymour Duncan Antiquities and also the new Gibson pickup, the Burstbucker. Pickup swapping has been discussed in depth over at the Les Paul Forum and I've learned a lot of stuff from those very knowledgable people, but beware - they can be quite elitist and merciless to newcomers - so it's better to lurk than post.

Everyone knows Tokai people are polite and forgiving - right? :wink:

I really hope we get some answers because I'm right with you on this. My neck pup is superb, but the bridge needs more balls!

Thanks Novesel.....yes I've been all over the les paul forum...Seems everyone is into the rolph and timbucker pickups and guys like to swap magnets and stuff...I learn quite a bit on that site but like you say some of the folks on the site like to snap or be sarcastic..tomorrow i'm going to call Scott at Duncan and find out how to get this axe brought around where it needs to be...I'll post back with results for us.

John

Which forum is that? Sounds useful!

Preben.....great website....Find it here.


http://www.lespaulforum.com/base.html


John

Hey John sorry your first run wasn't all it could be! Just a theory but maybe to get the tone you seek you might not go the standard Les Paul route, isn't your LR made of alder? Do you think that might be affecting the tone and giving you that Tele thru a Paul kinda vibe? I don't know , I just play'em and clean em! I did check out the control cavity of the LS80's and a Korean SG, man them was some small pots in the SG. I saw the printed circut boards, whats bad about them? :roll: Better luck and a Mastertone is headed your way! Later

Tokai....Nope,my axe is mahogany backed,maple top,but the neck is either maple or mahogany? it's pretty grainey though and most likely mahogany...The stock neck pickup is perfect and the Classic 57 is still too bright....Next I'm going to try different strings,bone nut and graphite string saver saddles because they warmed up my SG very nicely...The SG makes my Love Rock sound very anemic! I'll nail it someday soon...

John

I have faith in your ability! The scream that my LR's make could keep the master "Gary Moore" awake at night!! :wink:

stratdeluxer, thanx, I'll check it out!

John,
Here's what you need to fix the problem. They are cheap, and work great. These are the same ones I put into my Hamer 335 and I wouldn't be afraid to install 'em in a LP. Don't be fooled into spending a bunch of loot for tone. I was amazed with these pups!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909337153
Dave

Thanks for the heads up ramsale but I'm really trying to retain the classic look of the 59 Les Paul so I'll want to stay with covers on my pickups...

I am looking into making sure my strings are making good solid contact with the bridge saddles and possibly changing to either a graphite nut or bone and maybe "String Saver" graphite saddles which worked great on my Gibson SG...I also want to make sure that any changes I do doesn't take away sustain so it's always a tradeoff.....

I'm also going to call Scott again at Seymour Duncan and talk again about either the Seth Lover bridge pickup,the JB,and also the Custom Custom as I've done an awful lot of research on this topic..Seems I'm not alone and there are other bright les Pauls out there....I'll get it worked out pretty soon for sure!

John

After spending some time on the phone with one of the Seymour Duncan techs,it looks like the SH 11 Custom Custom pickup for the bridge position of my Tokai Love Rock could be the solution....It's still an alnico II pickup like a stock PAF pickup but it is less toppy,warmer,and rounder...Read the quote from the SD website....

"
"Custom Custom
go to the tone chart or hear this pickup
SH-11/TB-11 -- The Custom Custom? is our SH-5 Duncan Custom? humbucker with an Alnico II magnet for very warm and smooth highs, more midrange, and a buttery bottom end. It's a good choice for players who need a traditional vintage tone with increased output. Available in black, zebra (cream & black), reverse zebra and white as well as the following colors at no extra charge -- red, red & black, pink, green, light blue, dark blue & yellow.
Four conductor cable

Also my guitar tech told me that both my bridge saddles and nut are fine and to persue the pickup change for where I want to be with my particular situation.....

The Custom Custom doesn't come with a nickel cover and since I wanted to retain the vintage look of a 59 Les paul,I went with the cover which will be potted and soldered on at the Duncan factory for an extra $25....In my case it'll be well worth it....It will take about a month or maybe less to have the pickup....I'll keep you all posted...

John

You're on the right track. I have a few Tokais, including an older LR that had very microphonic pickups (actually, at least two of my LR's had this problem). Funny thing, those pickups sounded amazing until I plugged into my Marshall. Any Fender was fine, though :-?
Since I have a few LR's, I tried different combinations of pickups, and here is a list my faves. Remember, your milage will certainly vary.

• Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge.

• Seymour Duncan PG in the bridge.

• Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro II in the neck.

• DiMarzio Virtual PAF in the neck.

Mix and match, and find your own recipe. The other secret, that I shant reveal, is the pots and the tone capacitors. Do experiement. It is well worth it. You'll have a killer 'Paul', at about a $4K savings. :lol: The only other option is wax dipping them. But, if you don't like the tone of the Gotoh PU's, try something like I suggest above. Just make sure the ones you buy are potted. DO NOT buy something like the Seth Lover's or the antiquities, especially if you use high gain amplifiers.

Thanks for the great info Ranjam......So far I have moved the Classic 57 to the neck and have that adjusted flush with the pup cover...I'm using all CTS audio 500k audio pots and a .015 on the neck tone pot...I also made the neck tone pot into a No Load style by scraping carbon off the carbon disc....The Classic 57 reads 8.1k in the neck position and sounds full,warm,and beefy! Across the volume control is a .001 cap to retain rolled off highend..

The bridge pickup for now is the stock Tokai and actually is pretty decent...Both pickups are wax potted from the factory new...The Tokai bridge pickup reads about 8.8k and is pretty bright but I got alot more tone out of that position now by using D'Addario EXL 110'S replacing the Dull DR Pure Blues and bringing the bridge pickup up to about 2/32" bass and 1/32" treble...I have a sprague orange drop .022 cap on that tone pot and no No Load tone pot....This volume pot has a 680pf cap across it to retain highend while rolling off volume.....The neck pickup is a bit louder but I was able to get a good balance by keeping the neck pickup down aways...

The Custom Custom SH 11(Alnico II) might end up being the perfect pickup in the bridge position of this guitar because this position is bright in in a Tele soughta way. ;o) I'm pretty happy right now by just dialing the tone control back to around 5 or so until the Custom Custom arrives....it's going to take about a month or so to get it because I ordered mine with a nickel cover and this pickup comes stock without one....SD has the 21 day swap policy until I find the perfect match for my particular axe...

Other choices maybe......

SD Jazz in the neck

Seth Lover in the neck or bridge depending on the Custom Custom? I'd only pot the magnet and the cover and not the whole pickup as it robs it of tone in a compressed way..

Classic 57 in the neck but at 7k or so....I Like this pickup but it's pretty beefy,powerful,and loud! (Alnico V) i'm sure it would be a good match overall though with the more output Custom Custom....Just hope this pickup isn't too dark?

SD Neck 59 pickup(Alnico V)

SD Custom V But this is Alnico V (Brighter overall than Alnico II)


Great info and thank you...

John

This is very odd John - my KLR bridge pick up is on the dark side if anything, if used alone I have to turn the treble up on the amp a bit to compensate. I usually run the pair together for a very balanced tone. Maybe these guitars vary a bit from one to another but I wouldn't dream of changing the stock pups - strange indeed? My Washburn on the other hand benefitted considerably by adding 57's - I guess keep on plugging away !!

Vaporboy...Yep just goes to show how different some chunks of wood can sound..I'm sure things like our amp,strings,and picks might change things also....I'm feeling like once I get this SD pickup into the bridge position of my axe that I'll have it....I Must admit though that the stock bridge pickup is pretty good but the trick was to raise it up closer to the strings...

The Classic 57 in the neck is way more powerful,fuller,and rounder than the stock pickup I took out...The stock pickup had less volume and was thinner and cleaner....It sounded really nice but it doesn't compare to the Classic 57 in my opinion at the neck...

John

I had similar experience with Goldstar pups in Japanese AST-50. They were thin and weak sounding. Replaced 'em with Fender DeltaTones, and it's a great axe now... I think the Japanese and Koreans are well known for not using the best electronics, but they sure have got the build reproductions down tight...

Ramsale....Actually I really like the stock Tokai pickups....They are quiet,potted well,and have a nice tone,especially the neck position....

The only dislikes and it's because of my particular Love Rock is low output compared to the Classic 57 I now moved to the neck position from the bridge and the brighter tone of the stock bridge position Tokai pickup...

The Tokai pickup doesn't sound bad,just bright but it would probably sound phenomenal in a dark Love Rock....I'm going to hang onto both stock pickups because next week these might satisfy me?

I have a SD Custom Custom on order for my Love Rock that Duncan claims will fix me right up. The Custom Custom is "supposed" to be warmer,sweeter,fuller,w/more output but still have the ability to be nice and clean in a PAF kinda way? It's also an Alnico II pickup like a Seth Lover or the Classic 57's but wound for more warmth and less toppiness....They have a 21 day swap program so if this pickup doesn't satisfy me I can keep trying different ones until I find one that does...I Love Duncan's pickups and have them in several guitars..

John

Yo StratD

Howdy

I see you mentioned strings, pickups, etc., in your efforts to nail down your ultimate Love Rock tone.

Picks, albeit the cheapest ingredient, can make a difference. If you are looking for a fatter tone, here are my favorites: the Jim Dunlop Big Stubby 3.0 mm and the Pickboy Celltex 1.0 mm.

The Dunlop is like a plastic rock and takes some getting used to, but there's an unmistakable phatness that translates well into a tube amp. I also like the Pickboy as the sound is almost as lardacious but the edge harminics are the absolute squealiest I've ever heard - not that the Dunlops have lousy harmonics, either. The Pickboy is also a faster-playing pick with a thinner, sharp edge, hence the better harmonics. I used to use light-to-medium picks and have gravitated towards the chunkier stuff - what a difference in the sound, and this goes for acoustics and electrics as well.They even make a Big Stubby triangle pick, which is ridiculously huge, and smaller Stubby picks for jazz.

Hope you find your Holy Grail! Me, I'm still noodling around with my 86 Silver Star and 86 AST-56 (great guitars). Also have a 78 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Pro w/P-90s, a lesser known LP and not collectible but a dandy one

Take care

TokaiG