Concerned about Tokai Fake - what is my recourse?

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Big_Mike

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Around Christmas 2005, I purchased a purported Tokai Love Rocks from a Canadian dealer, Serial number 050721. I never questioned that it was authentic until recently. The stock pickups were somewhat muddy, and I wanted to install Gibson Classic 57 pickups in the neck position.

After looking over some posts, it looks like my "Tokai" may have been a fake. It has the Tokai logo at the top, but "Love Rock" is not on the headstock. Further, the headstock is kind of an "open book" frame. It is a red sunburst LP style, and it has a stamp "Made in Korea" at the base of the head stock.

I can post pictures once I have a chance to upload them.

Question - I have read several threads on these boards that Tokai is aware of the problem with this Canadian importer. Is there any recourse from Tokai regarding this product? Can I return it to Tokai or exchange it?

The other question is that I actually like the guitar, although it is VERY heavy. I suspect that it has to be solid mahogany. Might it be worthwhile to just keep what I have and upgrade the pickups and the electronics? I know now that it won't be a pure "Tokai", but I just want a good sounding LP guitar.
 
If you like the guitar then keep it, play it and don't worry about the label.
 
First, post some pics - it might not be a fake, so there's no point in worrying about it till you know it is.

If it is a fake & you like it, Ned's advice makes sense. It appears that many of the fakes are decent guitars, from what we've heard.

You can also check on http://almosttokai.freeforums.org , which is a site set up to deal with & advise on the fakes. As for legal redress, it seems that Tokai don't want to get involved, or at least I haven't heard of them doing so. My guess is that you would need to take some sort of legal action against the retailer, so you would need to have enough evidence to convince a court that you had been sold a fake.

Mike
 
Here are some images of the guitar:



000_0020.jpg


000_0019.jpg


000_0018.jpg
 
Big_Mike said:
Is there any recourse from Tokai regarding this product? Can I return it to Tokai or exchange it?
Click to expand...
Even if it is a fake, the dealer you bought it from are the ones responsible.
Anyway - guitar doesn't look like one of the fakes to me. It looks like a LP custom replica.
 
katoi said:
Anyway - guitar doesn't look like one of the fakes to me. It looks like a LP custom replica.
Click to expand...

Except Tokai have never made a Custom replica with a sunburst finish. The heastock inlay, tokai logo, tuners and the shape of the 'dimple' are wrong too, plus it was bought in Canada.

Bigmike, this is definately a fake. Since it's nothing to do with Tokai your only option is to take it up with the retailer, but I've not heard of many success stories.
 
There's not one thing on this entire guitar that looks real/correct to me....it's more like a fake Agile.

Mike - one minutes internet research would have told you this guitar was not a genuine Tokai...and the Canadian dealer knew it was a fake, unless he was blind.
Actually, if he was blind he could have felt it was a fake. ;)
 
Diamond said:
There's not one thing on this entire guitar that looks real/correct to me....it's more like a fake Agile.

Mike - one minutes internet research would have told you this guitar was not a genuine Tokai...and the Canadian dealer knew it was a fake, unless he was blind.
Actually, if he was blind he could have felt it was a fake. ;)
Click to expand...

I bought it in 2005 - well before all the Fakai stories came out.
 
Paladin2019 said:
The heastock inlay, tokai logo, tuners and the shape of the 'dimple' are wrong too, plus it was bought in Canada.
Click to expand...
True.
Although, this doesn't seem to be one of the typical "Fakais" seen in other pictures - of course that doesn't mean it's real though.
Clearly there are lots of things that don't appear to be genuine with this.

Is there any way of checking the serial number with Tokai to be absolutely sure about this before going back to the dealer armed with some proof?
 
katoi said:
Paladin2019 said:
The heastock inlay, tokai logo, tuners and the shape of the 'dimple' are wrong too, plus it was bought in Canada.
Click to expand...
True.
Although, this doesn't seem to be one of the typical "Fakais" seen in other pictures - of course that doesn't mean it's real though.
Clearly there are lots of things that don't appear to be genuine with this.

Is there any way of checking the serial number with Tokai to be absolutely sure about this before going back to the dealer armed with some proof?
Click to expand...

Do you think there's a chance 5 years after purchasing ???
 
t.olsen said:
Do you think there's a chance 5 years after purchasing ???
Click to expand...
As a Tokai is for life not just for xmas, I'd certainly give it a try.
If it's proven to be fake and the dealer doesn't care, could be time to get some legal advice.
 
Big_Mike said:
I bought it in 2005 - well before all the Fakai stories came out.
Click to expand...

Over on the AlmostTokai board they have examples of fakes dating from 2003.

t.olsen said:
Do you think there's a chance 5 years after purchasing ???
Click to expand...

Not really, but it's worth a try and always worth raising awareness.
 
Paladin2019 said:
Big_Mike said:
I bought it in 2005 - well before all the Fakai stories came out.
Click to expand...

Over on the AlmostTokai board they have examples of fakes dating from 2003.
Click to expand...

In 2001, Mike's Music in Ontario came out with a series of MIK "based upon MIJ specs" Love Rocks purported now to have been fakes.... although I still argue that. There were two 59 style (one in cherry, one in VF) and a 56 goldtop. Great guitars - had two of them
 
katoi said:
t.olsen said:
Do you think there's a chance 5 years after purchasing ???
Click to expand...
As a Tokai is for life not just for xmas, I'd certainly give it a try.
If it's proven to be fake and the dealer doesn't care, could be time to get some legal advice.
Click to expand...

Don't bother with legal advice ($), I don't think it is reasonable to get a refund 5 years after purchasing a guitar, you should have discovered it earlier.

Save your money, you're stuck with it, but if the dealer is still around maybe they will help you out in some way if you have a chat with them.

If it plays and sounds alright and you like it, just forget about it being fake.
 
JVsearch said:
Don't bother with legal advice ($), I don't think it is reasonable to get a refund 5 years after purchasing a guitar, you should have discovered it earlier.
Click to expand...

Sue the dishonest begger for the emotional trauma caused on dicovering it's a fake. Isn't that the 'modern' way? Well, okay, I agree with you. He's had 5 years of use. It might be worth upgrading if the basic instrument is decent, but I'd be careful as there is no point in polishing a turd. Alternatively, sell it, be honest about what it is, and buy a real Tokai.
 
But if a dealer/retailer is proven to be purposely selling fakes then it's plain fraud. Doesn't really matter how long they've had the guitar in that case, if a buyer wishes to take legal action that's a personal decision.
Probably not for a low cost model, maybe so for an expensive one.
 
katoi said:
But if a dealer/retailer is proven to be purposely selling fakes then it's plain fraud. Doesn't really matter how long they've had the guitar in that case, if a buyer wishes to take legal action that's a personal decision.
Probably not for a low cost model, maybe so for an expensive one.
Click to expand...

Does he have the receipt? Does the law allow an action after so long? Would they prosecute a dealer for selling fake copies of Gibson guitars?
 
Leif said:
katoi said:
But if a dealer/retailer is proven to be purposely selling fakes then it's plain fraud. Doesn't really matter how long they've had the guitar in that case, if a buyer wishes to take legal action that's a personal decision.
Probably not for a low cost model, maybe so for an expensive one.
Click to expand...

Does he have the receipt? Does the law allow an action after so long? Would they prosecute a dealer for selling fake copies of Gibson guitars?
Click to expand...

All the dealer has to say is that he didn't know it was fake
 
Leif said:
Would they prosecute a dealer for selling fake copies of Gibson guitars?
Click to expand...

I remember reading several articles a couple of years ago that said someone on craigslist was successfully prosecuted for that exact reason. Can't seem to google it though...
 

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