Help identifying, dating and verifying Goldstar...

Tokai guitar discussion

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erfmedeiros
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Help identifying, dating and verifying Goldstar...

Post by erfmedeiros » Wed May 12, 2010 8:22 pm

Hello everyone...

This is my first message... I just met my first (supposedly) Tokai guitar, and guess what... I bought it!

I've never heard of it before and fell in love with its sound and cult mysterious brand.

Well, the story goes like this... It's supposed to be a Goldstar (Oldies but Goldies and all). If that's true, based on the headstock shape and Tokai logo, I would place it somewhere around 1984, but...

This guitar has NO serial number. I suspect the neck plate has been replaced... Also I believe previous owners changed pickguard and bridge. I'm pretty sure the tuners had been replaced (drilling holes showing). There's no Made in Japan inscription... The guy who sold it to me couldn't give me ANY background history whatsoever... Bridge pickup was temporarily replaced, but the original one shows in the pictures (the seller says they are seymour duncan, but can't say what kind).

Pictures bellow... I need help... Well...

1. First of all, verifying it.. Is this a REAL Tokai Goldstar?
2. Where you think it was manufactured? Is it made in Japan?
3. Dating it. What year was it manufactured?
4. How much is it worth? (I'm not saying how much I paid yet to avoid influencing you. I'm from Brazil by the way)
5. What model is it? Are those seymour duncan pickups? What kind?
6. Is this a good guitar compared with other Tokais and Fenders?


Thank you very much...

Eduardo.

ps. Sorry low qual pics. better qual pics later if needed

Pics:

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BlueThird
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Post by BlueThird » Wed May 12, 2010 9:13 pm

Hi Eduardo. There's nothing I can see to suggest that the neck isn't from a genuine Goldstar, and the fact that it doesn't say MIJ isn't a concern ? none of them did, at that point, presumably because all of them were.

On the other hand, I think the chances that the body is from a Goldstar (or any other Tokai, for that matter) is pretty much nil. The missing neck plate is one clue ??why would you ever bother to replace it? The two-point tremolo is another. To the best of my knowledge, the only Tokais you'd see that on would be their own designs, and they wouldn't have that body shape.

If you take the pickguard off and take some shots of the routing and neck joint we'd be able to tell you pretty much straight away if it was a Goldstar that someone had hacked around. If not, someone might recognise who did make the body. Think you'll need more shots of the pickups too, if anyone's going to recognise those. They don't look like Tokais to me, but you'll need someone else to tell you if they're SDs.

Think you've got a Partsocaster.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Wed May 12, 2010 11:30 pm

BlueThird wrote:Hi Eduardo. There's nothing I can see to suggest that the neck isn't from a genuine Goldstar...
22 frets?

It's not a vintage style neck, so is it a Goldstar neck?
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

blake375
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Post by blake375 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:02 am

It also had truss rod adjustment at the headstock end and the shape of the heel is rather unfefined - doesn't look like Tokai workmanship to me. Even the shape of the headstock is not quite right I think...

BlueThird
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Post by BlueThird » Thu May 13, 2010 2:44 am

Never quite worked out exactly which models have the fake truss rod cover ? some do, some don't, and it doesn't seem to relate only to the fretboard ??so I'm not sure if that's an issue or not.

But JVsearch is bang on about the number of frets. I'm spluttering with embarrassment over that one. :oops:

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Thu May 13, 2010 5:11 am

No Goldstars had headstock truss rod access or 2 string trees. I would be surprised if anything about that guitar was real Tokai.

Mike

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Thu May 13, 2010 5:15 am

BlueThird wrote: There's nothing I can see to suggest that the neck isn't from a genuine Goldstar, and the fact that it doesn't say MIJ isn't a concern ? none of them did, at that point, presumably because all of them were.
All 80s Goldstars said MADE IN JAPAN on a sticker at the base of the neck, though this was often removed.

There's nothing I can see to suggest that the neck is from a genuine Goldstar.

robdefries
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Post by robdefries » Thu May 13, 2010 5:32 am

Looking at the neck, the 22 frets and the two point tremolo, I would say this is a Fender Standard Strat. Made from 1986 up until today. The trussrod opening looks real Fender to me too.
If you take the guard off, you should find the so called 'bath tub routing'. One big hole under the guard. This was done, so you could take the guard off without first taking the neck off. With vintage routing, there would be no way you can take the guard off, cause of the longer, overlapping fretboard. The pickups can't be move backwards, to lift the guard off.

I'm not aware of any Standard Strat copies, so it sure looks like a Fender to me, it still could be a Partscaster. I have my doubts about the placing of the string retainers and the neck heel. The 12th position dots look to be not as close together as a with a genuine Fender. The bridge pickup is a Seymour Duncan, a humbucker in single coil disguise.

EDIT::: Having looked again and again, I can be sure to say it's not a US made Fender either........ Two point tremolo looks very Asian to me.

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Last edited by robdefries on Thu May 13, 2010 6:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

robdefries
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Post by robdefries » Thu May 13, 2010 5:50 am

The pickup that comes with it, looks like a DiMarzio, because of the adjustable poles, ie Allen screws. Can't get a clear look, pics are not sharp enough to be sure.

The wiring is for sure not Fender.

Open the guitar up and we'll know!

BlueThird
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Post by BlueThird » Thu May 13, 2010 7:30 am

Still not convinced that there is truss rod access on the headstock. To me it looks more like a paint-on, but obviously none of these photos are as sharp as they could be.
stratman323 wrote:There's nothing I can see to suggest that the neck is from a genuine Goldstar.
Obviously the number of frets counts against it, but the logo looks perfectly legit, and if Rob's right it's difficult to see why it would have ended up on a Fender.

Shots of the routing and the heel end of the neck should settle whether any of it is from a Goldstar.

mirrorboy
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Post by mirrorboy » Thu May 13, 2010 9:44 am

I think it's a Squier Standard Stratocaster and the Tokai logo does not look the same to me as an original one by Tokai.

erfmedeiros
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Post by erfmedeiros » Thu May 13, 2010 10:06 am

Damn you people know your guitars, huh?

Well, let's take it apart:

Don't mind the bridge, just spoke with the pre-pre-owner and he confirmed he had it replaced, so I guess it can't be taken into account. Otherwise, he couldn't give me any new information.

I'm sorry, the seller claims the pickups are DiMarzio, not SD as I said before.

I really can't see why someone would take a real Fender (being US or asian, for that matter, since I bought this one for R$1000.00 = US$560.00, wich is pretty much cheapier than any fender in Brazil) and relabel it as a Tokai.

The truss rod access is NOT painted, but I didn't think of searching for a real screw inside. Might as well be just a hole, but I think is real.

I don't have the guitar here with me since the seller took it to reinstall the original bridge pickup, and the pics aren't sharp because I only had the chance to take pictures with my cell phone. I'll post better ones in about a week or so.

erfmedeiros
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Post by erfmedeiros » Thu May 13, 2010 10:14 am

The finishing (is that how you say in english) is definitely better than the one on this modern squiers. Maybe when I post better pictures you'll be able to see that.

It might be compatible with a japanese squier from the mid-80's, but then again, what would be the point in relabelling it with a more unkown and obscure brand?

Don't mind me, I'm stupid and ignorant, but I'd rather buy a sure Japanese Fender-Squier from the mid-80's than a doubtful Tokai.

About the neck plate, someone asked what would be the point in replacing it... Well, people don't always know and respect their guitars... It probably got a little rusty and someone thought better to put a new one, despite the s/n and whatever.


(Sorry for my english)

erfmedeiros
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Post by erfmedeiros » Thu May 13, 2010 10:18 am

Anyhow, as soon as I get the guitar from the shop I'll take out the pickguard and take some decent pictures.

Keep brainstorming, I'm still in time to unbuy it. :)

Mick51
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Post by Mick51 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:17 am

erfmedeiros wrote: (Sorry for my english)
Nothing wrong with your English, friend.

Welcome aboard!
There is no revolution, only evolution..

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