A Tokai Book

Tokai guitar discussion

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bamyasi
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Post by bamyasi » Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:46 pm

stratman323 wrote:
bamyasi wrote:One of my goldies has the first set of words. Does this mean the date of manufacture can be narrowed down to a particular year?
I've got an idea that it means it's one of the earliest ones, but I don't have any proof of that. It's not the black one you bought from me, so tell us more.

I bought an ST50 new in December 1983, it must have been one of the first script decal Goldies on the market, & I think it had the first set of words. But I don't have any pics, & I sold it in 1987 so my memory may be failing me. But I don't recall seeing another Goldie with that writing since, & I always wondered why.

Why would they change it anyway?
Here is a link to some pictures of the goldie with the "Made In Japan By.." decal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46160831@N ... 67/detail/

Were there differences in goldies in US and Europe? Could it have something to do with that?

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:40 am

bamyasi wrote:Here is a link to some pictures of the goldie with the "Made In Japan By.." decal.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/46160831@N ... 67/detail/

Were there differences in goldies in US and Europe? Could it have something to do with that?
Nice. So that's the one with the jumbo frets you mentioned? Shame about that, it looks just like my white one apart from that.

Maybe Iain will want to include it in the book as a brief phase in Tokai history? I think I would.

The headstock shape on US market Goldies changed in either 1984 or 1985, in Europe we got them with the F headstock until later, though I've never been able to pin down exactly when the UK ones changed. I wouldn't have thought that would account for the difference.

iainblack
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Post by iainblack » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:50 am

Just to put the SS discussion into context I only have 2 on the list for the book!

amunro
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Post by amunro » Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:59 am

Trying to close down the Silver Star debate, I have extended the table to refer to both versions of the SS60 with some notes to explain.

I'd be grateful if some knowledgable folks could review and comment.

A couple of points:

First, I guessed at the pickup types for the flat pole-piece SS60s. Can someone validate?

Secondly, we still need to resolve the question of pickups on the lower end SS36-40 and SS48-50 models.

As before, the updated article is here:http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

I tried just to paste the table in here but it went all to hell :)

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:10 am

Just to add to the confusion :wink:

There were also some ST-70 Springy's maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.

Mick (Leadguitar323) has one of the maple ones

amunro
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Post by amunro » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:11 am

One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.

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Post by JohnA » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:11 am

amunro wrote:One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.
I think you're right :D

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:20 am

amunro wrote:One other query, following the updates from Peter Mac, in both tables I have references to Ash bodies but one reference (from my original) to Sen Ash. We should be consistent and my understanding is that all of Tokai's Ash bodies were actually Sen Ash (which is not a true Ash but related to Ivy (of all things)). Am I right?

thanks all.
There's some debate about this. Personally I think I would use the term Sen Ash or maybe Sen (Ash). Some people claim that Tokai used ash & sen at different times, but I doubt if there's any proof of this. Why would they use both when they clearly had a good supply of sen available?

Apparently sen is not directly related to ash, & I have heard the ivy theory too! Some websites claim it is nothing like ash, & that tonally it's more like poplar. My opinion is that that is rubbish.

Having compared a sen Strat & an ash Strat, & a sen Tele & an ash Tele, I am convinced that sen has the tonal characteristics of ash, & it looks similar too. In fact it often looks nicer than ash. :wink:

bluejeannot
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Post by bluejeannot » Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:40 am

amunro wrote:Trying to close down the Silver Star debate, I have extended the table to refer to both versions of the SS60 with some notes to explain.

I'd be grateful if some knowledgable folks could review and comment.

A couple of points:

First, I guessed at the pickup types for the flat pole-piece SS60s. Can someone validate?

Secondly, we still need to resolve the question of pickups on the lower end SS36-40 and SS48-50 models.

As before, the updated article is here:[url]http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword

Great job guys,but here are a couple of things you might like to consider before publication.Firstly dealing with SS pickups both the h pickups found on ss 36 /40s and the S pickups found on ss 48/50s must be alnico,remember they do not have a ceramic bar p`up stuck to the bottom of the coil but 6 individual alnico rods.
With regards to Goldie St 60s ,an awful lot of them were fitted with Es not Vs,secondly they can have either 2 piece alder or ash(sen or otherwise)bodies) and the maple neck St 60s have a V neck,round string tree and a 4 digit serial number.Keep up the excellent work, Gabe.
Last edited by bluejeannot on Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
bluejeannot

amunro
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Post by amunro » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:27 am

bluejeannot wrote: With regards to Goldie St 60s ,an awful lot of them were fitted with Es not Vs.
Hi Gabe, just to be clear, the E stamped puckups were made with the "Alnico V" alloy (as opposed to the earlier alloy, Alnico III (I think)), so in this context E isV.

Do you mean, "E's not U's" rather than "E's not V's"?

thanks
Andrew

bluejeannot
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Post by bluejeannot » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:12 am

Hi Andrew,I don`t know if E stamped pickups are alnico 5,3 or whatever but I was referring to the fact that some St 60 goldies came stock fitted with E stamped pickups, and some with V stamped pickups,whether the V stamp means Alnico 5,I doubt it,I think it refers to Vintage.Cheers Gabe.
bluejeannot

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:27 am

I don't recall ever seeing anyone comment or speculate about what sort of Alnico was used. I would guess at Alnico V as it's the most commonly used for Strat pickups, but hey, this is Tokai we're discussing.

The trouble with getting into details on the later pickups is that after the Us were replaced (why???) Tokai used a variety of different stamps, IIV, VII, VI, & I have yet to see a definitive description of what the codes meant. I really don't know why they didn't just fit Us to everything!

Maybe it's better to not get drawn into too much detail on the pickups on the later guitars?

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Post by bluejeannot » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:31 am

stratman323 wrote:I don't recall ever seeing anyone comment or speculate about what sort of Alnico was used. I would guess at Alnico V as it's the most commonly used for Strat pickups, but hey, this is Tokai we're discussing.

The trouble with getting into details on the later pickups is that after the Us were replaced (why???) Tokai used a variety of different stamps, IIV, VII, VI, & I have yet to see a definitive description of what the codes meant. I really don't know why they didn't just fit Us to everything!

Maybe it's better to not get drawn into too much detail on the pickups on the later guitars?
So do you think the Vs were fitted to Goldie st 60s when the E`s ran out Mike?Gabe.
bluejeannot

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:35 am

bluejeannot wrote: So do you think the Vs were fitted to Goldie st 60s when the E`s ran out Mike?Gabe.
Did the Es run out? The Us seemed to run out as they were replaced with the various Vs on the cheaper models, but I thought the Es continued in use on the higher models after the Us stopped?

All this discussion about pickups that are, at best, average..... :roll:

bluejeannot
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Post by bluejeannot » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:49 am

Sorry Mike,I think E`s are fantastic pickups they have a wonderful airy chiming quaity that I associate with50`s and early sixties strats.They are subtle though,more Rock and roll and rockabilly than rock,more Jimmy Vaughn than Stevie and more Buddy Holly than Jimi, and because they are slightly underpowered they don`t overpower the acoustic character of the guitar making for a very expressive and tactile experience. Gabe.
bluejeannot

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