A Tokai Book

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imosdad
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Post by imosdad » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:46 am

To go slightly off topic re info for the book...

I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
Cheers.
Dave

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:59 am

imosdad wrote:I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
I have found Goldies to be remarkably consistent. In no particular order:

7lb 8
7lb 11
7lb 11
8lb 2
7lb 11
8lb 0
7lb 11


Two that I have sold were:

8lb 1
8lb 9

Springys:

ST60 7lb 14
ST80 7lb 4 (the lightest Strat I have)

8)

imosdad
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Post by imosdad » Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:31 pm

To go slightly off topic re info for the book...

I would be very interested to know weights of peoples guitars? I've two goldies. One is 7lb 8oz the other is 8lb 7oz - both great but the difference is noticeable.
Cheers.
Dave

amunro
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Post by amunro » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:13 am

Last Call...

Folks, I've just posted the sixth and hopefully final version of the article up on the page: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx.

It contains just a few tweaks from the previous version and, in the absence of any feedback to the contrary, I am proposing that this is the final version for publication.

Let me know,

Andrew

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:17 am

Andrew

Don't know if you want to update the table, but there were also some ST-70 Springy's, maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.

Mick (Leadguitar323) has one of the maple ones

amunro
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Post by amunro » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:56 am

JohnA wrote:there were also some ST-70 Springy's, maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.
Never say "never", never say "final" :D ...

I've added in the ST70 here: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Any final words?

Andrew

JohnA
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Post by JohnA » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:06 am

amunro wrote:
JohnA wrote:there were also some ST-70 Springy's, maple capped maple boards with no skunk stripe, and slab board rosewood.
Never say "never", never say "final" :D ...

I've added in the ST70 here: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Any final words?

Andrew
I'm sure someone will find something the day after the book goes to print :D Looks great to me though, probably the most comprehensive and accurate piece ever written about Tokai Strats!!

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:08 am

amunro wrote:Never say "never", never say "final" :D ...

I've added in the ST70 here: http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

Any final words?

Andrew
First, well done for getting so close to 2 definitive tables to explain the various Tokai Strats - that's quite an achievement. However.....

In the Springy/Goldie table:

Why state that the Springy/Goldie pickups are Alnico V? Since some were stamped V, that's confusing. Is anybody certain that the magnets used were Alnico V (i.e 5) as opposed to Alnico 2 or 3? If not, why not just state "Alnico"? Keep it simple. :wink:

ST60s could either have Us or Es - both are well documented.

In the Silver Star table:

As stated before, the pickups on the entry level models were NOT ceramic. This would be very confusing if it went into the book like this. Most (all?) that I have seen had unstamped pickups.

The SS36/38/40 could be 3 or 4 piece body, not just 3 as the table states.

On the 3 bolt SS60, the pickup pole pieces are not flat, they have a slight stagger. I just checked the ones from my SS60. Also, were they really DiMarzios? That's news to me if they were. Are we sure we want to include this as fact? Keep it simple. :wink:

It's not true that SS pickups changed from grey bottom to black bottom in 1981. I had a 1982 SS with grey bottomed Alnico pickups, & Iain wants it in the book, so please let's not state something that the pics will prove to be untrue!

The SS60 was produced in 1980, not just 1981 - I have one from 1980.

Cheers. 8)

bluejeannot
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Post by bluejeannot » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:23 am

Just to reinfoce Mike`s points,only pickups with a bar magnet on the bottom are ceramics, ie goldie st 40s.Secondly Goldie st60s came fitted with V and U stamped pickups,and many of them had E stamped pickups too so, it is not true to say that only Springys were fitted with Es. Cheers Gabe.
bluejeannot

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:48 am

bluejeannot wrote:Just to reinfoce Mike`s points,only pickups with a bar magnet on the bottom are ceramics, ie goldie st 40s.Secondly Goldie st60s came fitted with V and U stamped pickups,and many of them had E stamped pickups too so, it is not true to say that only Springys were fitted with Es. Cheers Gabe.
Vs? I'm sure I have only seen Es & Us on an ST60. It might be safer, & easier, to not mention the lettering on the pickups & to refer readers of the book to the forum for greater clarification. This would make the tables simpler to read too.

The only important distinction really is that Springy & Goldie ST40/42s had ceramic pickups, & the rest had Alnicos. Everything else is detail which perhaps we can do without in this book?

amunro
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Post by amunro » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:57 am

The text before the tables does say that variations exist. The U / E stamped pickups are a common differentiator (even if not perfect) so I'd prefer to keep that point in if we can (but maybe mention that both Es and Us are seen on ST60s.

Mike, to your earlier points, I think we can accommodate all of those to get a clean picture.

The one big question I have is over the Silver Star pickups as Peter Mac seems pretrty clear that the low-end pickups are Ceramic and stamped H and S where-as everyone seems to lean towards them all being Alnico. It seems a big distinction and I guess it is possible that the "Ceramic" is a typo caused by Peter copying and editing the above Springy table. In which case (thinking as I type), would everyone be happy if we described SS36-40 as "Alnico (sometimes H stamped)" and the SS48-50 as "Alnico (sometimes S Stamped)?

Let me know,

Andrew

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:37 pm

Hi Andrew,

I respect Peter & his knowledge of Tokais, but I think he's got a little confused about ceramic Strat pickups. I think maybe your latest suggestion is the best compromise.

I know this has been a lot of work, but (IMHO) these tables & your text are likely to lift this above being just a picture book to being a useful & accurate reference document. Which can't be bad, can it?

:D

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Post by JohnA » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:32 pm

My favorite books just have pictures :o

amunro
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Post by amunro » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:20 am

OK, updated tables included here:

http://burningpine.com/TokaiForeword.aspx

I think what we have now is a good, general guide. Remember the intention is not to create the definitive guide covering every variation (that's Peter Mac's job :D ), but a strong overview.

Once again, all feedback gratefully received but I think we are close to locking this down now.

Many thanks to everyone for their enthusiastic and impassioned input :)

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:03 am

In my opinion, that's about the closest we're going to get in a table - well done. :D Accurate, but not too detailed or complicated.

I like wording such as "The 3 bolt SS60 appears to have been in production only in 1980-81". It's really not possible to be precise about many Tokais when it comes to exact year of production, we've seen many variables that challenge conventional wisdom, so a bit of vagueness is better than being too precise & misleading anyone.

Having seen a few of Iain's draft pages, I am confident that we're onto a winner here. 8)

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