LP clones - Tokai, vs. Epi Elitist vs. Edwards vs. Greco?

Tokai guitar discussion

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mark1982
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Post by mark1982 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:42 am

Axchisler wrote:
i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.
I didn't buy cuz it was cheaper, I bought cuz it was better 8) .
thats right be we are the lucky ones that know how good they are.
But lets try and keep it to ourself other wise everyone will be buying Tokais and they will put the Prices up!

marcusnieman
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Post by marcusnieman » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:44 am

Axchisler wrote:

Forebearance? :o
Sorry .... spelt it wrong. Basically, the ability to show tolerance:

for⋅bear⋅ance  /fɔrˈbɛərəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-bair-uhns] ?noun

1. the act of forbearing; a refraining from something.
2. forbearing conduct or quality; patient endurance; self-control.
3. an abstaining from the enforcement of a right.

Dave_Mc
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Post by Dave_Mc » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:12 am

Axchisler wrote:
i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.
I didn't buy cuz it was cheaper, I bought cuz it was better 8) .
same here :D the fact they're cheaper too is the icing on the cake.

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:20 am

Dave_Mc wrote:
Axchisler wrote:
i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.
I didn't buy cuz it was cheaper, I bought cuz it was better 8) .
same here :D the fact they're cheaper too is the icing on the cake.
+1
Possibly ALL the main MIJs are better quality at the various price points, or same quality at a lower price. I'm talking about new or recent stuff, not old or vintage ones because they are another story price wise.

Cheaper is good, because you can get more of them as well!
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Axchisler
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Post by Axchisler » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:23 am

mark1982 wrote:
Axchisler wrote:
i would say more people buy a Tokai/epi/vintage/whatever as its a cheaper way to own for example a Les Paul guitar.
I didn't buy cuz it was cheaper, I bought cuz it was better 8) .
thats right be we are the lucky ones that know how good they are.
But lets try and keep it to ourself other wise everyone will be buying Tokais and they will put the Prices up!
Crap, did it again :oops: . Yeah, Tokais are kinda cool, ok I guess, but ESP's, that's where your money should go. :wink: 8)

Axchisler
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Post by Axchisler » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:24 am

marcusnieman wrote:
Axchisler wrote:

Forebearance? :o
Sorry .... spelt it wrong. Basically, the ability to show tolerance:

for⋅bear⋅ance  /fɔrˈbɛərəns/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fawr-bair-uhns] ?noun

1. the act of forbearing; a refraining from something.
2. forbearing conduct or quality; patient endurance; self-control.
3. an abstaining from the enforcement of a right.
Gotcha... 8)

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Tokais are rubbish. I have no idea why anybody buys them.

:wink:

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:27 pm

jzucker wrote:at any rate, i'm looking for a $1k tokai, not a $3k one. Anyone know of one forsale? ;)
Jack, for a $1000 you can get a brand new LS90 plaintop from Japan, including shipping...if it's a new model it will come with MK2 pickups.

jzucker

Post by jzucker » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:34 pm

Diamond wrote:
jzucker wrote:at any rate, i'm looking for a $1k tokai, not a $3k one. Anyone know of one forsale? ;)
Jack, for a $1000 you can get a brand new LS90 plaintop from Japan, including shipping...if it's a new model it will come with MK2 pickups.
I want to buy used so that down the road if I move it I don't lose money.

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:34 pm

JVsearch wrote:
Diamond wrote:In 1977 Tokais were copies, today they're replicas, they have a reputation that's taken 40 years to establish...I'd hardly call that a copy.
They have a mahogany neck and body, 18 degree headstock angle, maple top, tune-o-matic bridge with stop tail piece, 2 humbuckers with 3 way switching plus volume and tone for each pickup. I wonder where they got the idea for that? :lol: Oh yeah, they also look identical to a Gibson LP!

Replicas, clones copies - it's all the same thing.

However, they have a top reputation as a quality guitar builder that is all their own, but they do primarily produce the designs of others.
True, but why do we call a Suhr guitar a Suhr, a Tyler a Tyler, or a D'Pergo a D'Pergo, when they're all Fender copies...same necks, same body shape, same wood, same switching system, 3 single coil pickups, etc,etc...besides the headstock they're identical to a Fender...I wonder where they got the idea from? ;)

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:42 pm

Axchisler wrote:.
Diamond wrote:Guitarists are weird creatures.
They don't think about resale value when they buy a $15,000 car, but they think about resale value when they buy a $1000 guitar.

Meanwhile the car loses $1000 in value the minute you drive it out the showroom, and drops in value daily after you've bought it.
Eventually it lands up on a scrapheap or for sale in a "Used" car lot for 10% of it's original value, meanwhile you're still playing the $1000 guitar.
True Diamond, but if you have a car from before 1972 (like guitars) in great shape, even restored with new parts, it has increased in value considerably. :wink: And there's Conan O'Brian's '92 Ford Taurus SHO he's made famous :lol:
Sorry, I'm not convinced. :)

A guy will tell you that his 69 Corvette has increased in value, but he doesn't tell you what he's spent on it since he bought it...replacing parts, servicing, maintaining.
Add what he's spent onto what he paid, and guaranteed he's losing money when he sells it.

Reminds me of my buddies that tell me their business is paying for their Merc or BMW or Porsche...lol, really?, your business is paying, not you?..who owns the business? :)

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:18 pm

Crap, did it again . Yeah, Tokais are kinda cool, ok I guess, but ESP's, that's where your money should go.
Would you like to explain this.? ESP have been selling guitars in other markets for years and have become extremely popular while the other manufacturers chose to stay in the Japanese market. So ESP charges Gibson prices for guitars that are no better than Tokai and the rest construction wise. ESP made itself popular selling pointy guitars in the 80's and have a much larger market than Tokai , burny, greco and co. So Tokai and the rest are better value for money than ESP. I recently played an ESP explorer and while it was a very nice guitar it was no better than the Greco i had with me at the time, the price difference was nearly 3 grand.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:38 pm

Diamond wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
Diamond wrote:In 1977 Tokais were copies, today they're replicas, they have a reputation that's taken 40 years to establish...I'd hardly call that a copy.
They have a mahogany neck and body, 18 degree headstock angle, maple top, tune-o-matic bridge with stop tail piece, 2 humbuckers with 3 way switching plus volume and tone for each pickup. I wonder where they got the idea for that? :lol: Oh yeah, they also look identical to a Gibson LP!

Replicas, clones copies - it's all the same thing.

However, they have a top reputation as a quality guitar builder that is all their own, but they do primarily produce the designs of others.
True, but why do we call a Suhr guitar a Suhr, a Tyler a Tyler, or a D'Pergo a D'Pergo, when they're all Fender copies...same necks, same body shape, same wood, same switching system, 3 single coil pickups, etc,etc...besides the headstock they're identical to a Fender...I wonder where they got the idea from? ;)
I'd call a Suhr or D'Pergo a Fender copy, a very high end hand made one.

I really feel sorry for someone who has a passion for building guitars today because it pretty much has to look like a Fender or a Gibson or they wont sell many guitars. Most people here on this board wont even tolerate a slightly different headstock design, myself included, although in recent times I decided to get past this.

Why are those two brands so strong? Great designs, resting on past glory, the effects of "vintage mojo", massive marketing and endorsements, and the conservative nature of guitar buyers. So the only part really worth paying for is the great design, the rest of it is pretty much worthless to a guitar player unless you will want to sell the guitar later. That's where MIJ comes in with the same great designs, and higher build quality.

Only my opinion! :D
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

AlanN
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Post by AlanN » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:45 am

mark1982 wrote:But lets try and keep it to ourself other wise everyone will be buying Tokais and they will put the Prices up!
Joined: 08 Oct 2009

And I thought I was late to the party :D

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:45 am

The trouble is that nothing has fuelled the increase in Tokai prices as much as this forum has. We are all to blame. It's our fault for telling the truth.

:cry:

Tokais are crap - don't buy one!

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