Fretboard inlay finish flaw

Silver · Aug 23, 2009

This pictures come from this forum. I own one 2008 Tokai LS, and I've seen two another - they all have that strange black bruises which surround inlays

What's the problem with that? Is it a glue? Filler?

It seems that all new Tokai guitars have that finish flaw. Even LS-320

For me it's a real pain in da ***. It's the only flaw on my Tokai guitar. Frets are perfect, inlays are so greatly glued and polished but that black fuckers ruin the look of the fretboard.

Is there any way to clean that?

It looks so ugly compared to that perfect inlay finish:

Diamond · Aug 23, 2009

I don't see anything wrong with your second photo.

MIJvintage · Aug 23, 2009

yes; all of that crap is filler & it's an indication of crude & clueless workmanship

I have a 2000 LS-320 which is over all a great guitar, yet the inlays are surrounded by a TON of filler :evil:

that is really unacceptable for a guitar that has a AAAA top, Brazilian finger board, Honduran mahogany body & neck, and a price from Hell .........

My Bacchus BLS models have inlays that are cut fine as frog's hair; not much of that crappy filler surrounding the Bacchus inlays 8)

RyanC · Aug 23, 2009

Silver,
If I'm not mistaken, the round shapes in the corners of your inlays are basically the
"turnarounds" for the CNC router. They aren't chiseled by hand anymore, so it's just a
function of the manufacturing process nowadays. And there is nothing you can do about it.

FWIW, it would bother me as well. :-?

Diamond · Aug 23, 2009

It bothers me as well.

MIJvintage · Aug 23, 2009

Ryan, I have worked with CNC equipment, and any program is only as good as the person programming it

the manufacturers (tokai, whoever) could still use CNC to route 95%+ of the inlay area, and then have actual real people aka humans come along afterwards & chisel out the little bits of the corners, via very small/very sharp chisels.

It all comes down to cutting corners for production co$t, pun intended ........................

Silver · Aug 23, 2009

Sure, if that's the filler it can't be cleaned :-? Ehh...

I wondered why Gibson has changed their dish inlay shape, making it's corners round.
Our problem + RyanC mentioned CNC, and it now makes sense to me.

So the only thing that can be done is masking it using black fingerboard stain like this?
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Finishing_supplies/Colors,_tints,_and_stains/Black_Fingerboard_Stain.html

I'm not sure if it can be applied on rosewood (they do it on maple), anyway this operation has some consequences:
- Loosing rosewoods look :-?
- IMO it's possible that it can block rosewood absorption of moisture / maintenance oils. That can lead the whole thing to problems like drying...
edit: That stain is an oil, so absorption block isn't a problem, but can it be placed on the fingerboard with mounted frets?

What do you think?

Shame on Tokai. Why they can't improve their product development processes? :x

RyanC · Aug 23, 2009

Silver said:
So the only thing that can be done is masking it using black fingerboard stain like this?

Hmm, I'm not sure it would bother me that much. It seems a little risky
to me, and I personally wouldn't want to lose the look or the rosewood. Just
my two cents. Of course, you could just sell it and buy vintage.

Paladin2019 · Aug 23, 2009

I don't have mine to hand but I'm sure it looks like the second photo. Mine does have an ebony fretboard however, and the effect is a lot less noticeable against a jet black background.

I don't think the black colouration detracts from the guitar's visual impact - people either don't notice, or they think it's a cool look!

EDIT: the stuff you linked to is specifically designed for ebony... not sure what sort of results you'd get putting it on rosewood.

Silver · Aug 23, 2009

I've found some links about it:
http://www.stewmac.com/tradesecrets/promo/ts0046_ebony
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=905052

I think that it's a safe action, and she's only black LS-85 :lol:

colinhotrod · Aug 23, 2009

Its not the CNC programming issue but a tooing one. they are using a tiny endmill to remove the fret inlay detail. there is no such tool with a "zero" radius so impossible to create sharp corners.

I do not know how old the machinery is in the Tokai factory but on the machines that I program it would be possible to do using a special ground chisel. there is a few different ways to do it.

I very much doubt they would shell out 200k for a machine that would only do the fret inlays.

Silver · Aug 23, 2009

@colin:
You mean "Only Gibson is good enough"?

colinhotrod · Aug 23, 2009

Silver said:
@colin:
You mean "Only Gibson is good enough"?

Nah Gibson are cheating. just had a look at my wine red studio. Notice the radiused corners along with the radiused dish inlays to match.

My SG75 is like the first pic in the first post but hardly noticable due to the rosewood neck. Sharp corners of the inlays much more pleasing to the eyes.

MIJvintage · Aug 23, 2009

stain it?

No; just leave it as it is because after all, who is gonna notice it unless they're sitting there with their eyes one foot/or less away from it.

luckily, it's not usually readily detectable ..........

Silver · Aug 23, 2009

@colin:
Exactly, I figured it too

It's funny because before I was wondering why the hell Gibbo changed that beautiful, sharp shape to a rounded :roll:

@MIJ:
Why not? I think that it's a good idea. But now the reason has changed and it's like 80% - blackening fretboard; 20% covering that filler :lol:

Just compare this two guitars:

That black fretboard makes that Burny so "mature"

leadguitar_323 · Aug 23, 2009

That top photo of that Burny is just darker, i can still see that the fretboard is rosewood. For what its worth, the third picture you have used to start this thread is my LS-180, it is a 2002 model and the inlays are perfect, it has an ebony fretboard.

You can get a stain for the rosewood to make it black, my goldtop has a Black stained rosewood board.

Mick

RyanC · Aug 23, 2009

I really dig the inlays on that LS180 Mick!

leadguitar_323 · Aug 23, 2009

Yes, they are extremely well done and are Abalone.......nice

Mick

Donkey Oaty · Aug 26, 2009

We looked at my LS150 last night and there is no filler that we could see around the inlays ( which was nice ).

I noticed that filler started to show more on post 2005 Tokai's for some unknow reason ?

But some of the Gibson Standards I have seen are more like car body filler

On the back of a Gibson LP standard neck it says " Sponsored by Isopon P38 )

For those in the USA ( Sponsored by Bondo ) :wink:

For those in Oz ( Sponsored by LITE N EASY ) :wink:

It just show that in the USA , Oz and Blighty we all speak some form of English :lol:

stratmoto · Aug 26, 2009

Donkey Oaty said:
On the back of a Gibson LP standard neck it says " Sponsored by Isopon P38 )

For those in the USA ( Sponsored by Bondo ) :wink:

For those in Oz ( Sponsored by LITE N EASY ) :wink:

It just show that in the USA , Oz and Blighty we all speak some form of English :lol:

Bog. That is the colloquialism most commonly used around the motor repairers.

You would say " I will put some bog in the fretboard"

Is it different in the UK?

Fretboard inlay finish flaw

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