which Tokai is compared to the Gibson Les Paul Standard??

Tokai guitar discussion

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Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:33 am

Guys, some facts.

There is currently no such thing as an LS150...it does not appear in the Tokai catalog # Volume 23...the latest catalog.

Currently the catalog lists from the TOP of the range model, LS380, LS230, LS135, LS75, LS80, LS85, LS90Q....and a few others.

The only LS models with the "deep joint" are the 380/230/135/125F (the LS125F is currently not available).
All other LS models don't have the deep joint.

So I guess the LS135 is the model that best competes with the Les Paul Standard...for less than half the price. :)
Keep the legend alive, buy new Tokais!

f5joe
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Post by f5joe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:57 am

I am baffled by some of this conversation. Not only is the Tokai numbering system difficult, there is no one "Gibson Les Paul Standard" to compare to.

Am I the only one that see the Gibson Les Paul Standard as any one of many different production eras and quality levels? :-?
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JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:19 am

f5joe wrote:I am baffled by some of this conversation. Not only is the Tokai numbering system difficult, there is no one "Gibson Les Paul Standard" to compare to.

Am I the only one that see the Gibson Les Paul Standard as any one of many different production eras and quality levels? :-?
Well there's no point including the 58 - 60 originals, because they're $300k plus! Also, the 70's ones have appreciated quite a lot recently.

Most people appear to think the OP was looking at currently available type stuff, so for Gibson you've got Gibson USA and the Custom Shop.

Obviously for Gibson USA you've got Standards, Traditionals, Studios, and Classics in the mahogany with maple cap configuration, but as far as I know most of them are weight relieved.

For the Custom Shop you've got the Replicas (Historics): R2, R4, R6 through to R9 and R0. There's also some CS serial number Black Beauty LPs out there that are made in the Custom shop but are not R7s or R4s. Very nice guitars, but a new buyer wanting a LP could get a Tokai LS-150 with a plain top and pretty much the same specs as an R9 for way less than half the cash. There's one on ebay right now with a nice weight of 8.8 pounds, in tobacco, looks really nice.

If we're going to talk second hand there's thousands of LPs out there from both US and Japan. Probably better to discuss these when the OP finds something they like and it's relevant to the forum.

My own choice would be to go for the LS-150 or a Bacchus LP over any 70s Gibson or any current production Gibson USA model unless you can play the guitar first and you really love it. But my view is coloured by the fact that I'm fed up with vintage guitars that turn out to be old and shite or just totally average (yes got burned).
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:21 am

Joe

With respect, you're making a complicated issue out of a simple one.

Obviously the original poster is talking about current Les Paul Standards.
Keep the legend alive, buy new Tokais!

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:23 am

JVsearch wrote:
f5joe wrote:I am baffled by some of this conversation. Not only is the Tokai numbering system difficult, there is no one "Gibson Les Paul Standard" to compare to.

Am I the only one that see the Gibson Les Paul Standard as any one of many different production eras and quality levels? :-?
Well there's no point including the 58 - 60 originals, because they're $300k plus! Also, the 70's ones have appreciated quite a lot recently.

Most people appear to think the OP was looking at currently available type stuff, so for Gibson you've got Gibson USA and the Custom Shop.

Obviously for Gibson USA you've got Standards, Traditionals, Studios, and Classics in the mahogany with maple cap configuration, but as far as I know most of them are weight relieved.

For the Custom Shop you've got the Replicas (Historics): R2, R4, R6 through to R9 and R0. There's also some CS serial number Black Beauty LPs out there that are made in the Custom shop but are not R7s or R4s. Very nice guitars, but a new buyer wanting a LP could get a Tokai LS-150 with a plain top and pretty much the same specs as an R9 for way less than half the cash. There's one on ebay right now with a nice weight of 8.8 pounds, in tobacco, looks really nice.

If we're going to talk second hand there's thousands of LPs out there from both US and Japan. Probably better to discuss these when the OP finds something they like and it's relevant to the forum.

My own choice would be to go for the LS-150 or a Bacchus LP over any 70s Gibson or any current production Gibson USA model unless you can play the guitar first and you really love it. But my view is coloured by the fact that I'm fed up with vintage guitars that turn out to be old and shite or just totally average (yes got burned).
Where are you seeing new LS150 models?
Keep the legend alive, buy new Tokais!

JVsearch
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Post by JVsearch » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:58 am

Diamond wrote:
JVsearch wrote:
f5joe wrote:I am baffled by some of this conversation. Not only is the Tokai numbering system difficult, there is no one "Gibson Les Paul Standard" to compare to.

Am I the only one that see the Gibson Les Paul Standard as any one of many different production eras and quality levels? :-?
Well there's no point including the 58 - 60 originals, because they're $300k plus! Also, the 70's ones have appreciated quite a lot recently.

Most people appear to think the OP was looking at currently available type stuff, so for Gibson you've got Gibson USA and the Custom Shop.

Obviously for Gibson USA you've got Standards, Traditionals, Studios, and Classics in the mahogany with maple cap configuration, but as far as I know most of them are weight relieved.

For the Custom Shop you've got the Replicas (Historics): R2, R4, R6 through to R9 and R0. There's also some CS serial number Black Beauty LPs out there that are made in the Custom shop but are not R7s or R4s. Very nice guitars, but a new buyer wanting a LP could get a Tokai LS-150 with a plain top and pretty much the same specs as an R9 for way less than half the cash. There's one on ebay right now with a nice weight of 8.8 pounds, in tobacco, looks really nice.

If we're going to talk second hand there's thousands of LPs out there from both US and Japan. Probably better to discuss these when the OP finds something they like and it's relevant to the forum.

My own choice would be to go for the LS-150 or a Bacchus LP over any 70s Gibson or any current production Gibson USA model unless you can play the guitar first and you really love it. But my view is coloured by the fact that I'm fed up with vintage guitars that turn out to be old and shite or just totally average (yes got burned).
Where are you seeing new LS150 models?
See ebay item: 380130269062
and

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/44506.html

http://www.kurosawagakki.com/tags/search/1/0/168_5.html
Totally biased towards Japanese made guitars.

f5joe
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Post by f5joe » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:44 am

Diamond wrote:Joe

With respect, you're making a complicated issue out of a simple one.

Obviously the original poster is talking about current Les Paul Standards.
It is not "obvious" in my opinion. :wink:
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Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:25 pm

JV

Thanks for those links...much appreciated.

I must say, the guitars in that link and the catalog I have in front of me is very confusing.

For example.
They show an LS95F...are these Flamed Maple tops, or Flamed Sycamore tops?
My catalog shows no 95F models, only 85F (Sycamore flame), and 125F Maple Flame).

It's all kind of confusing.
If they increase prices they should just change the price, not the model Number. :)
Keep the legend alive, buy new Tokais!

stratman323

Post by stratman323 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:40 pm

Diamond wrote:It's all kind of confusing.
If they increase prices they should just change the price, not the model Number. :)
We know! It's absurd, everybody thinks that except for Tokai. :roll:

Luckily the worst thing about Tokais is their model numbers, which isn't the worst problem in the world.

:wink:

TOKAI JOE
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Post by TOKAI JOE » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:39 pm

Diamond wrote:Joe

With respect, you're making a complicated issue out of a simple one.

Obviously the original poster is talking about current Les Paul Standards.

8) u talkin about me? which joe? tokai joe or f5joe?

anyways sorry to tell you this but your catalog is the vol.23

which was printed sometime in 2005/6. its the old one.....

the newest one is the vol.24 and it came out in the late 2007.

tokai had the last price/model# changes around that time.

so now the old LS135 is the LS150........nothing wrong there.

just a sure info here.....




8)

Diamond
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Post by Diamond » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:51 pm

Joe

They sent me the #23 catalog 3 weeks ago, and they sent me a price list saying, "as of September 2008"....which is the latest pricelist.

The catalog shows the LS135, and the pricelist shows a price for the LS135...the pricelist makes no mention of an LS150...it doesn't exist on the pricelist.

Even more confusing...
TOKAI JOE wrote:
Diamond wrote:Joe

With respect, you're making a complicated issue out of a simple one.

Obviously the original poster is talking about current Les Paul Standards.

8) u talkin about me? which joe? tokai joe or f5joe?

anyways sorry to tell you this but your catalog is the vol.23

which was printed sometime in 2005/6. its the old one.....

the newest one is the vol.24 and it came out in the late 2007.

tokai had the last price/model# changes around that time.

so now the old LS135 is the LS150........nothing wrong there.

just a sure info here.....




8)
Keep the legend alive, buy new Tokais!

TOKAI JOE
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Post by TOKAI JOE » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:40 pm

8) your catalog vol.23 is the older one so no doubt its not talking about
todays tokai gtrs prices and all. you just have to get the newest vol.24
so try get it from japan. the price list from 2008 should have LS135F
which was the LS125F before 2008 so maybe thats what your price
list talking about. but dont know why there is no price of the new ls150
there when that model is all times the japan high end standard model.
seriously ls90 & ls150 are the most popular japan made tokai gtrs here
in japan. they are everywhere where sells tokai seriously.

when you see any tokai model.......the japan list price is always this way
so far til the next time the sales tax goes up. so far its only 5% so
the math goes like this always........

if the gtr is ls90, then the list price is 90000 yen... plus 4500 yen. (5%)
if the gtr is ls150 then the list price is 150000 yen..plus 7500 yen. (5%)
not any difficult to fugure out.

then you talk to the dealer about the discount. maybe more or less
10% if in japan. this is how you figure out your best japan price.

so first, the model# list price.....then ask for the % of the discount.
then take the discount % amount away from it. then add the sales
tax price to it. which is only 5% of the DISCOUNTED PRICE.


the model# list price - the discount amount + the sales tax(5%)
= your final price.....then the shipping and the custom charge...
=your really final price......





  8)

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Post by TOKAI JOE » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:43 pm

8) ask TOKAI AUSTRALIA for the newest japanese catalog.
they usually have the link to download the newest japan catalog.
the man from TOKAI AUSTRALIA here is "stratomoto"........

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Post by TOKAI JOE » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:44 pm


leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:49 pm

Hi Diamond, i have the number 24 catalogue, 23 is about 3 years old.
So I guess the LS135 is the model that best competes with the Les Paul Standard...for less than half the price.
The LP standards don't have a deep joint long tenon neck joint, i am not too sure where you got that info, it is the historics that have the long tenon and Tokai's short tenon is longer that the Gibson standard tenon and a much better joint. Gibson use a rocker joint so they can get the neck angle right which cuts production time, it is a very sloppy joint and no where as tight or well made as the Tokai neck joints.

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

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