Help clueless about Tokai??

Hello,

This is my first post here.

I have just found about the joys of Tokai guitars. My story is I played guitar for about ten years and put it down about 8 years ago. I have recently picked up my acoustic guitar and starting playing again. A colleague at work said that he had just bought an amazing sounding guitar that was made by a company called ?Tokai?. I had never heard of them and did some digging on the web and they look and sound exactly what I am looking for.

I have a few questions for people who have one of these guitars.

1. Looking on the worlds largest auction site there are many ALS48 guitars for sale for around ?250 to ?300. Just how good is this model and what would the best guitar to compare it to? I think on youtube most Tokais I have heard are top end LS250 etc.

2. If I was to stretch myself to buy an LS80 - 85 how do they compare to a Gibson LP or would I be better off looking at the Gibson as the difference in price isn?t that much.

3. My last question is some are selling them shipped from straight from Japan but I would have to pay customs duty on it has anyone done this and how much does customs duty normally cost on a guitar i.e. on a ?650 LS85.

Thanks in advance

1) ALS48 is Korean made and a very competant instrument - quality wise it exceeds epiphone, but falls short of Japanese quality.

2) LS80-85 is a much better guitar. How close it comes to a Gibson is subjective as their are both good and bad LPs. However I have found that my LS70F (85F??? This week?) is at the very least as good as any standard I've played - in mnay cases it is better (this is of course a subjective opinion). Also bear in mind that current LP Standards are not the guitar Tokai are replicating - Gibson have a habit of "enhancing" the standard guitar with things like Asymetrical Neck profiles and so forth.

do they compare to a Gibson LP or would I be better off looking at the Gibson as the difference in price isn?t that much.

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Not sure if you have the right guitar here LS80 approx ?750 LP Standard ?1400

3) Yes. It would still be cheaper, but by the time you factor in carriage, VAT, Handling charges it won't be as cheap. Many people go that route and it works well. Just don't underestimate the Taxman - and never try and fool him - you might get away with it, but if you don't he'll smite you with furious anger.

As a rough guide if you buy from Japan, expect to pay 20% on top of the price & the shipping to cover import duty, VAT, Parcelforce handling fee etc.

Mike

Thank you for taking time to respond to my post

Not sure if you have the right guitar here LS80 approx ?750 LP Standard ?1400

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See I told you I was clueless about Tokai Guitars

I have just a few more questions

So if it has an A i.e. ALS48 it?s a Korean made guitar. Can you get a Japanese made LS48?

Am I right in thinking that the higher the number i.e. 48, 80, 85, 100, in theory it?s a better guitar?

Someone on the world?s best known auction site (sorry I don?t know the forum rules if I can name the site but you know which one it is) is selling a LS-100Q Sunburst Standard MIJ directly from Japan for ?510 is this a good price? I would have to pay sipping customs extra on top of that.

My last question apart from the auction site can some point me in the direction of where I could import a guitar from Japan or is it against forum rules?

Thanks again

The ALS48 guitars are deliberately lower ended models, so you can't get a Japanese version of this. You get a japanese model, starting at around LS75/80 for Les Paul guitars. These are made with better woods, better finish, better construction methods right from the get-go.

Tokai have not made any guitars in Korea for a good while now, and are instead all made in China.

A quick way to tell is two truss rod screws = japanese and 3 = chinese. It's a not a hard and fast rule, as people can remove and change them. Japanese guitars all have made in japan on the back of the necks generally also. Again, there are a few exceptions, but for les pauls this will stand you in good stead.

The other thing which may confuse you is that model numbers change when tokai re-cut their RPP in Thousand Yen. So, an LS90Q is the same as an LS100Q. The UK distributor tends to order in "old money" so to speak, so the model numbers don't change quite so frequently over here.
Exact same guitars though.

Just been having a look down ebay for you. I can see a couple of LS90/100Q's for about ?550.

Given you are using ? GBP, I assume you are in the UK.

Using XE.com Youd be paying about ?93 for postage ($155) on the one i looked at. Customs will hit you for approx 18% so about ?649. With shipping, that's ?742. It's a fair price. Only just more expensive than buying from a UK dealer.

Also bear in mind that your card company will NOT convert at Mid Market rates (used by ebay and xe.com) and will make a bit of dosh out of your transaction.

If you need any help, just ask here or PM.

You can mention pretty much any retailer or web site here - don't think anyone minds. In fact, pictures, links and as much info as possible are generally encouraged by the faithful.

The LS85f will be more like a Les Paul Traditional, Gibson changed a lot of things on the Standard to modernise it.

The price point is an appeal, I like the stock pickups in the LS85 but it would still be remarkably cheaper than a Gibson if I changed them, leaving you money to buy a very nice amp to go with it.

Maybe someone can answer this for me, but do the Gibbos have a 100% maple top i.e. not veneered? The LS85 has a very thin sycamore veneer on top of the maple cap, but it is incredibly thin and looks very good in my opinion. If it effects the sound then I can't tell. It also has a poly finish compared to the Gibson's nitro, but this does not bother me and at least the finish is durable.

I think the cheaper chinese models have a photo flame (perhaps someone can confirm?) for the money they are nice guitars but aren't in the ame league as the Japanese models, much like Epiphones aren't to Gibson. That said, you'll always get varients which break the rule (a crap Gibson and a good Epiphone) but the Japanese are more renowned for their consistency and quality control than other countries.

If you want to pay Gibson prices you could get a higher end Tokai model with features like a nitro finish, but it also depends if you have your heart set on the Les Paul name (you sound like a player so I doubt it will bother you). Personally, I love the fact that not everyone has a Tokai and when I've spoken to non-guitar playing friends about it (they are familiar with the Les Paul guitar due to Slash, Peter Green, Jimmy Page etc.) it makes a more interesting conversation and they are genuinely intrigued that a 'copy' can be so good. My other friends who own guitars think it's a great guitar and had to do a double take to check it wasn't a Gibson, which says something about the craftsmanship.

I'll second that!

I am still bowled over with the quality of my LS85 (now) goldtop.
Being a lefty, Gibson think its a good money earner for them to take the royal P and charge obscene money for their instuments.

Yes they are the original designers of a great piece of music history -but I do firmly believe that the real heart and soul and quality is firmly in the tokais and other quality Japanese guits.

I always recommend a Jap Tokai when people ask me for advice on buying guitars, some people want the name and they'll pay for it - others want a player that effortlessly puts out all the tone and playability of the originals and are beautifully made. - mind you Tokai has a name all of its own now.

In my line of work (can't say what) we had to use a couple of Gibsons for as props, this involed drilling holes in them, the quality was kind of there but honestly I think my Love Rock felt nicer- at least they weren't Tokais!

Thank you all again for your responses to my post.

It great to have joined a forum where people are giving out very helpful advice. Many are full of people who if you hint that you might be buying something that not main stream i.e. a Gibson/fender then the post would have around 60 replies from Gibson fanboys telling me I wasting my money if your going to buy a guitar then it needs to be a Gibson blah, blah, blah?yawn. They seem to of forgotten that playing is meant to be fun and it doesn?t matter what you play with.

Thinking budget wise I should really stick to the LS80/ 85 as I have just started playing again and it would be a bit silly to spend the extra on a LS100.

I really like the Violin Finish LS85F I?ve seem some on ebay and they look amazing

... cheers...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the Jap Tokai's quality control is so consistant you're much safer buying online (ie unseen ans unplayed)than if you forked out for a Gibson as they can be up and down.

Go and get one.. i promise you won't regret it!

Violin finish looks better 'in the flesh', not as reddy as the pictures.