Just got a new guitar. What model number is this?

sallyg · Mar 30, 2009

I just bought a guitar off ebay.

The seller referred to it as: Tokai Love Rock Japan 2001 Black Beauty LC-95S.

I looked under the front pickup and I found writing there that reads: 9-22 / LC-70S.
The serial number is 0104635 so it dates to a 2001.

Is a 2001 LC-70S equal to a 2009 LC-95S? What exactly do I have here?

youami · Mar 30, 2009

http://www.tokairegistry.com/images/catalogs/tokai20011.jpg

Should answer your question.

sallyg · Mar 30, 2009

OK. Looks like it was a LC-70S in 2001. What does that compare to today in the 2009 catalog?

Big Willie Style · Mar 30, 2009

That's a dirty tactic, selling an older guitar as a higher model just because that's what the equivalent is today. An LC-70s is still an LC-70s no matter when it's sold. That's what it's built as and it'll never change.

J.

youami · Mar 30, 2009

Same spec as current LC95S.

Tokai model numbering is hella confusing. I don't think the seller mis-represented the guitar, as it is identical to an LC95S, just older.

sallyg · Mar 30, 2009

I don't believe the seller was being deceitful. He hadn't looked under the pickup and thought it was a LC-95S because that's what he saw in the current catalog. He has offered to refund and has been great about it.
I just wanted to be sure.

What would the US value of this guitar be?

Anonymous · Mar 31, 2009

Big Willie Style said:
That's a dirty tactic, selling an older guitar as a higher model just because that's what the equivalent is today.

Sorry, I think the blame lies at the door of Tokai & their stupid, stupid, STUPID model numbering system. It's a system designed for a time of zero inflation - and it makes no allowance for inflation. It was fine in the 80s, when an ST50 (for example) was an ST50 for 10 or 15 years.

Once prices started increasing regularly it became a complete nonsense. Even the LR experts on here can't be sure what my 2003 LR is - LS60? LS70? What should I advertise it as if I decide to sell it? And what would the model number tell any buyer who isn't an expert on Love Rocks.

Gottfried, Mick, Tokai Joe - you all have contacts at the top of Tokai. Can't all 3 of you together persuade them to stop this madness now? All they have to do is decide on model numbers that will stay the same regardless of price increases. That can't be too hard, can it?

:evil:

Mike

marcusnieman · Mar 31, 2009

sallyg said:
I don't believe the seller was being deceitful. He hadn't looked under the pickup and thought it was a LC-95S because that's what he saw in the current catalog. He has offered to refund and has been great about it.
I just wanted to be sure.

What would the US value of this guitar be?

Well, to put it in perspective, what did you pay for it? Simple answer is in 2001, it was worth 70,000 yen or around $700 in todays dollars.

What's it worth? It's worth what someone will pay for it when you sell it and in today's market, you could take a loss.

Ozeshin · Mar 31, 2009

marcusnieman said:
sallyg said:

I don't believe the seller was being deceitful. He hadn't looked under the pickup and thought it was a LC-95S because that's what he saw in the current catalog. He has offered to refund and has been great about it.
I just wanted to be sure.

What would the US value of this guitar be?

Click to expand...

Well, to put it in perspective, what did you pay for it? Simple answer is in 2001, it was worth 70,000 yen or around $700 in todays dollars.

What's it worth? It's worth what someone will pay for it when you sell it and in today's market, you could take a loss.

OR you could be like me and NEVER sell it.
To my way of thinking my 1985 LS80 is what a LP is MEANT to be...I wouldn't ever settle for less than $1500.
I'll never get that price so why the hell bother...and THEN what would I buy?

Alpedra · Mar 31, 2009

stratman323 said:
Big Willie Style said:

That's a dirty tactic, selling an older guitar as a higher model just because that's what the equivalent is today.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I think the blame lies at the door of Tokai & their stupid, stupid, STUPID model numbering system. It's a system designed for a time of zero inflation - and it makes no allowance for inflation. It was fine in the 80s, when an ST50 (for example) was an ST50 for 10 or 15 years.

Once prices started increasing regularly it became a complete nonsense. Even the LR experts on here can't be sure what my 2003 LR is - LS60? LS70? What should I advertise it as if I decide to sell it? And what would the model number tell any buyer who isn't an expert on Love Rocks.

Gottfried, Mick, Tokai Joe - you all have contacts at the top of Tokai. Can't all 3 of you together persuade them to stop this madness now? All they have to do is decide on model numbers that will stay the same regardless of price increases. That can't be too hard, can it?

:evil:

Mike

Yep. I know what you mean. More. It?s not exclusive to Tokai. It looks like lots of japanese guitar companies follows that route. For example, Fender Japan, ESP Edwards, they all have the same system... Well.. to tell the truth, Fender Japan changed it?s model number system this year to a more intuitive one. But until 2008, it was the same mess.

stratmoto · Mar 31, 2009

stratman323 said:
Big Willie Style said:

That's a dirty tactic, selling an older guitar as a higher model just because that's what the equivalent is today.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I think the blame lies at the door of Tokai & their stupid, stupid, STUPID model numbering system. It's a system designed for a time of zero inflation - and it makes no allowance for inflation. It was fine in the 80s, when an ST50 (for example) was an ST50 for 10 or 15 years.

Once prices started increasing regularly it became a complete nonsense. Even the LR experts on here can't be sure what my 2003 LR is - LS60? LS70? What should I advertise it as if I decide to sell it? And what would the model number tell any buyer who isn't an expert on Love Rocks.

Gottfried, Mick, Tokai Joe - you all have contacts at the top of Tokai. Can't all 3 of you together persuade them to stop this madness now? All they have to do is decide on model numbers that will stay the same regardless of price increases. That can't be too hard, can it?

:evil:

Mike

The 2003~2004 vol.22 Catalogue has Japanese Love Rock models in the following order :-
LS70, LS75, LS80F, LS80S, LS85Q, LS120F, LS200 & LS320.

The complete Catalogue is not published on the Tokai Registry, only some of the pages are listed.

There may be a short period of transition between actual production and the Catalogue being released in Japan. This is one area where there could be some confusion.

LuBee · Mar 31, 2009

sallyg said:
I don't believe the seller was being deceitful. He hadn't looked under the pickup and thought it was a LC-95S because that's what he saw in the current catalog. He has offered to refund and has been great about it.
I just wanted to be sure.

What would the US value of this guitar be?

If you like the guitar and it plays well, come to a comprimise on price with the seller and keep it.

Ozeshin · Mar 31, 2009

stratmoto said:
stratman323 said:

Big Willie Style said:

That's a dirty tactic, selling an older guitar as a higher model just because that's what the equivalent is today.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I think the blame lies at the door of Tokai & their stupid, stupid, STUPID model numbering system. It's a system designed for a time of zero inflation - and it makes no allowance for inflation. It was fine in the 80s, when an ST50 (for example) was an ST50 for 10 or 15 years.

Once prices started increasing regularly it became a complete nonsense. Even the LR experts on here can't be sure what my 2003 LR is - LS60? LS70? What should I advertise it as if I decide to sell it? And what would the model number tell any buyer who isn't an expert on Love Rocks.

Gottfried, Mick, Tokai Joe - you all have contacts at the top of Tokai. Can't all 3 of you together persuade them to stop this madness now? All they have to do is decide on model numbers that will stay the same regardless of price increases. That can't be too hard, can it?

:evil:

Mike

Click to expand...

The 2003~2004 vol.22 Catalogue has Japanese Love Rock models in the following order :-
LS70, LS75, LS80F, LS80S, LS85Q, LS120F, LS200 & LS320.

The complete Catalogue is not published on the Tokai Registry, only some of the pages are listed.

There may be a short period of transition between actual production and the Catalogue being released in Japan. This is one area where there could be some confusion.

Transitional models are just so damned hard to I.D....seems like we see so many of them as well.

Just got a new guitar. What model number is this?

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