Six digit SN on Love Rock

Tokai guitar discussion

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maunaloa
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Six digit SN on Love Rock

Post by maunaloa » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:43 am

Is this a fake?

Transamber LR

From the pictures, SN of 050672
Export (double dimple) headstock
Double ring tuners
TRC lacks white border
"Love Rock" is VERY faint on headstock
point to point wiring
"unique" color, not a stock Love Rock color IIRC

What do you think?
(Great forum... spent many pleasant hours in sponge mode before posting)

[Edit to delete possibility of a factory custom. Email from President of Tokkai Gakki later in thread confirms the six digit SN "Love Rocks" are fakes.]
Last edited by maunaloa on Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

BillyWizz
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Post by BillyWizz » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:58 am

Cant say.

But only a dipstick with two brain cells would fake a Tokai with the UK headstock :o



I would have thought ?



But then again, there are a lot of people with two brains cell's who check oil level these days :lol:

stratmoto
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Post by stratmoto » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:06 am

Here's the rub..... LOL

It's like....PMSL

FAKAI :evil: :roll:

BillyWizz
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Post by BillyWizz » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:22 am

stratmoto wrote:Here's the rub..... LOL

or even

There's the Rub :lol:

Image

Mickdal
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Re: Six digit SN on Love Rock

Post by Mickdal » Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:58 am

maunaloa wrote:Is this a fake or the very rare 6 digit SN of a custom Love Rock?

Transamber LR

From the pictures, SN of 050672
Export (double dimple) headstock
Double ring tuners
TRC lacks white border
"Love Rock" is VERY faint on headstock
point to point wiring
"unique" color, not a stock Love Rock color IIRC

What do you think?
(Great forum... spent many pleasant hours in sponge mode before posting)

Hey maunaloa

I think it's the same as the one in this thread.........Korea to Canada......only....??

http://www.tokaiforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=32200

Mick

stratmoto
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Re: Six digit SN on Love Rock

Post by stratmoto » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:01 am

maunaloa wrote:Is this a fake or the very rare 6 digit SN of a custom Love Rock?

Transamber LR

From the pictures, SN of 050672
Export (double dimple) headstock
Double ring tuners
TRC lacks white border
"Love Rock" is VERY faint on headstock
point to point wiring
"unique" color, not a stock Love Rock color IIRC

What do you think?
(Great forum... spent many pleasant hours in sponge mode before posting)
Good eye there. The ad did mention the tuners being swapped, though.

Let's add:-
Hex nut on switch instead of knurled type
Tokai logo WRONG too far north and a jaunty angle
TRC is also too short
Strap buttons have too large mushroom on the end
Routing for control cavity is off axis. The gap between the edge of the body is too close on the lower corner.
Drilling for volume / tone knobs is also off axis by the same amount. Tokais can be checked by the "straightedge bisecting the 2 volume knobs when lined up with the front edge of the bridge"
Only 2 screws in the plastic switch cover. Tokai have 3 screws.
Zebra pickups are OK for LS50Q, not this thing.
McHogany body with Maple neck??

But if you rub it enough it's a Tokai :roll: His mates must have said so

guitarslinger
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Post by guitarslinger » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:32 am

BillyWizz wrote:
stratmoto wrote:Here's the rub..... LOL

or even

There's the Rub :lol:

Image
Did you tell me that you know Wishbone Ash before?

I'm an absolutely mental wishbone fan!!

They're coming round the UK this spring again.

BillyWizz
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Post by BillyWizz » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:00 pm

guitarslinger wrote:
BillyWizz wrote:
stratmoto wrote:Here's the rub..... LOL

or even

There's the Rub :lol:

Image
Did you tell me that you know Wishbone Ash before?

I'm an absolutely mental wishbone fan!!

They're coming round the UK this spring again.

My all time fav Album is Argos. I used to bump into them many moons ago when I was a frequent visitor down the old Marquee club in Wardour Street.

Fantastic band. Were way ahead of the Eagles and Thin Lizzy for harmonys.

maunaloa
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Post by maunaloa » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:18 pm

Thanks, mates. The GAS-afflicted buyer hasn't received the guitar yet (still en route). He called me to tout the new addition to his collection and I gave him my opinion. The buyer is now freaked out because he now thinks the guitar is of "dubious provenance" (because of what I told him, the contents of my first post). Thanks to stratmoto's further observations, and the link to the 050700 SN "Tokai" in other thread, I now think it is a "parts-kai"... the UK-model parts walked out of the Korean factory for a "special order" to Canada. Why fake a UK model Tokai and send it to Canada? The guitar is too well made for a low volume Chinese-made fake, and since when do the Chinese make fakes in low volume? At least, that's my theory.

Now the real rub. Rather than deal with sending the guitar back, the buyer has offered it to me (or to any former member of Wishbone Ash :D). So let's assume it plays like butter, has glitch-free controls, and has Seymour Duncan p/ups (the p/ups could be Mk IIs without covers, but play along for the moment -- if someone has changed the tuners, they would likely also have changed the p/ups, the weakest link in the stock guitar). Since the buyer could get his money back from the seller, is the axe worth USD 398 plus USD 60 for OHSC?
Last edited by maunaloa on Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

luis
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Post by luis » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:34 pm

The chinese Tokais affaire again? Hope not!

I feel there is a great effort trying to make a lot of press for chinese Tokais,yes they exist and are promoting heavily,jus tbecause they are really cheap cost for dealers and have Tokai name value.....

What puzzled me is the common fact telling "Korean Tokai guitars are as good as japanese" blablabla... I guess not, sorry. I don?t buy it!

maunaloa
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Post by maunaloa » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:21 pm

But the Chinese fakes I know about have the open-book headstock, and Chinese fakes to date have been of mediocre quality. Only now are "Chinese suppliers to brand names" approaching the quality of Western counterparts, like Chinese made, Epiphone Masterbilt models of acoustic guitars. TMK, those suppliers all have Western managers who enforce QC.

I think the guitar at issue is most likely parts that failed, or "never saw", inspection at Tokai's Korean supplier, or maybe at subcontractors to that supplier, and were assembled by an "entrepreneur" with "friends" in Canada.

Although it might be a clone of a clone, my problem at present is valuation... let's assume it had no name on the headstock and was made by "a boutique Korean luthier".

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:32 pm

Hi Maunaloa, i also doubt this "thing " has a solid carved top.. :o , some oddities were made for the canadian market but this one isn't one of those, it even looks like it has a different colour neck heel !!. My advice would be that it makes much more sense to post your intentions, {or your friends} before you purchase, we see this time and time again and it will save potential buyers money and grief ....

Mick
so many guitars....so little money...

maunaloa
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Post by maunaloa » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:42 pm

leadguitar_323 wrote: ... My advice would be that it makes much more sense to post your intentions, {or your friends} before you purchase, we see this time and time again and it will save potential buyers money and grief ....
My intentions are straightforward: to buy it from my friend or to pass and let him get his money back from the seller. I would set the guitar up for slide playing for my home studio, rather than have to retune my Gibson LPC every time I want to lay a slide track.

leadguitar_323
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Post by leadguitar_323 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:47 pm

Mate , i have a Bacchus LP and a couple of greco's that i paid about the same amount for and would eat this guitar alive, i wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole...... sorry if my reply sounds harsh but this thing is worth nothing as far as i and everyone else that knows these guitars well are concerned.. :wink:

Mick

BTW...Stratmoto is a Tokai dealer
so many guitars....so little money...

maunaloa
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Post by maunaloa » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:36 pm

Thanks for the advice. I will pass on the guitar. I advised my friend to get his money back. The seller has 100% positive feedback, so I don't think there will be a problem.

Thanks, all, esp. Stratmoto.

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